To not know how anyone can believe in God or not hate him if they do?

[JustWearThePants]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I've a relative who's very religious and brings God into every conversation and situation.

I grew up going to church with my parents and always just took the 'who knows' approach afterwards.

I've been through an incredibly traumatic experience lately, where something happened and keeps happening to me which has left me broken, a shell of who I was, depressed and anxious, and just wanting to die so many times.

Yet this relative always wants to bring God into my situation. Tell me how he'll help, if I pray, if I 'give it to him' it will help me etc... I want to shout and shake them and tell them to wake up.

It's left me honestly baffled how anyone can either believe at all or, if they do, why they don't see him as a horrid bully who enjoys watching people suffer. All you have to do is watch the news to see what goes on in the world.

Before this happened I was okay just letting my relative and whoever believe whatever they believe but now I want to scream at anyone who brings it up. How could you possibly feel loved by someone who allows these things to happen to you?

I'm so angry at someone telling me the man in the sky will make everything better yet whenever I ask why he's let it happen in the first place they have no answer. It's all 'his plan' or some other crap. And how when I start to feel better it's because of God giving me strength when actually it's me, I've put in the effort, I've gone through the shit.

I don't want to see this person anymore but I can't as they are a close family member and I know no one else in the family would understand.

That he doesn't have**

And yes prayer is utterly unimportant to me now as nothing has ever come of it before, whether that's in the form of 'fixing' a problem or just comfort.

And yes prayer is utterly unimportant to me now as nothing has ever come of it before, whether that's in the form of 'fixing' a problem or just comfort

Sounds like you have reached a peace with this then.

I think if there is a creator then they won’t really want people worshipping them. A lot like it Alien Prometheus. Any creators were probably as evil as we are.

And if you believe in the Judeo Christian god then you have remember he killed lots of innocent children and babies in Noahs flood, and asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. Now that is pretty evil too. Maybe god and Satan are the same person.

Ok OP well in answer to your original question YANBU if that's the way you see God but I guess I'm just trying to explain how I can believe in God and not hate him. I guess I don't believe in an omnipotent God and I absolutely do not believe in a God that punishes people by making bad things happen to them.

OP I get the impression you are cross with people who believe in a God because you think if a God exists then you shouldn’t have suffered, is that right?
The thing is that’s you making assumptions about the kind of God people believe in. A few people on this thread have already explained to you that they don’t believe in a God whose job it is to fix everything bad in the world and give us perfect lives. They do however believe in a God that is willing to give love and comfort whilst they endure their pain.
You don’t have to believe in anything you don’t want to. You can tell your relative to back off and shut up. But try not to be bitter and resentful about other people’s beliefs.

You don’t have to believe in anything you don’t want to. You can tell your relative to back off and shut up. But try not to be bitter and resentful about other people’s beliefs

Yes. I agree. This sums it up well.

OP, firstly I'm sorry for the dreadful things you've been going through. And I apologise in advance if I sound insensitive because I don't always get tone right.

I don't believe God is testing or punishing you. Someone mentioned Job, and how brutal God was, but he didn't do anything to Job except allow the bad things to happen. He didn't stop them.

Of course, that's a big problem (and I think it's the point of that book being in the Bible). Why doesn't he stop bad things happening?

Jesus came to show us God more clearly. He got involved with people, cared most about the poor and vulnerable, got upset by suffering (and acted practically rather than just giving out platitudes!). When someone asked why someone was suffering, he says clearly that it wasn't a punishment.

So I believe in a God who feels along with us all our pain and sorrow. He'd desperately love to fix everything, make everything right, but he has restricted himself from doing that for the time being. Because when he does, that'll be heaven and there'll be no more death, no pain, no sadness. But what about the people who don't want an eternity with God? For some people on this thread, that'd not be what they want at all! And God respects that. And I believe he gives good gifts to those people as well as his own children/followers. But he won't make anyone follow him who doesn't want to. So he can't make everything right until he decides it's time and he wraps up this world.

I would also say that God loves to work through people. Doesn't mean we shouldn't thank doctors and be grateful for their skill, love our closest friends for always being there for us and so on, but I believe there's an imprint of God in all of us. So I would thank God too. Many times I've prayed for something and God has answered through people.

Final thing I want to say is: I admit that Christians can be very insensitive (and some are a bit scared of questioning their faith, too). I agree with all the pps who've suggested things to say to your relative to get them to back off.

OP, I'm sorry that you have been through some hard times.
I have been through some horrendous experiences in my life; currently, I'm going through something no Mum should have to ever face.
My faith and my church community help me deal with this. However, I don't foist my beliefs and choices on others and, whilst your relative may be well-intentioned, if it's causing you this much consternation, perhaps being boundaried with said person would help.

@JustWearThePants

You're not being offensive, and it is incredibly patronising.

Get your relative told in no uncertain terms that you do not share their religious belief, and you do not appreciate it being constantly brought into your conversations with them. In your shoes, I'd make it abundantly clear that all references to God stop, immediately, or the conversations themselves stop, immediately.

Well done for realising that your progress so far is entirely down to your own strength of will and fortitude. Keep it up, and never, ever be afraid to speak your mind to those who you feel are just dragging you down. Their poor sensibilities will recover in short order. Your mental state is infinitely more important.

Okay, so let’s say God exists. Are you seriously angry with him for the brutality, callousness, cruelty and wickedness of other people? Are you blaming God for all the evil that people do? How about blaming the actual people who are evil and wicked? Do you also blame lions for killing zebras and you are angry with God for letting it happen? Because from the zebra’s point of view the lions are wicked cruel bastards who deserve to burn in hell.
Say someone breaks into your home, robs and brutalises you. What do you expect God to do? To suddenly appear next to you in the flesh and defend you? Or you want him to magically turn the intruder into a good person? Do you realise how silly all that sounds?
What if YOU hurt someone in some way and that person would summon God to deal with you and change you into someone your victim wishes you to become without your permission. Would you like that? No, thank you very much, you want to change your ways when YOU are ready, not someone else is.

Potatobug

That's all great but the situation I've referred to throughout my post is nothing to do with what anyone has done to me or what I have done to them. My body miscarries pregnancies. How is that relevant to anything you just said? My situation is nothing to do with someone being evil or the cruelness and brutality of people.

So how is God responsible for the reasons that might cause your miscarriages? such as: the genetics you inherited from you parents, your lifestyle or environmental factors? You don’t make much sense. You want to blame someone and a spontaneous miscarriage is seemingly nobody’s fault so let’s blame God! Aha, okay.

I'm not sure if you've read the whole thread potatobug but I think the main problem is that the OP has a relative who tries to get her to pray and trust in God's plan etc and I think that sort of talk makes it seem as though God has some kind of control in this situation, which I can see is confusing and upsetting for the OP.

I think it's fairly obvious why people question God in times like this so I'll guess you're being purposely being obtuse.

We're told God is omnipotent & benevolent and yet things happen that cause so much suffering in the world. Of course people question it, it's not even a new concept, people question this all the time. I don't understand how people who believe in God don't question it at all? If you come to the conclusion that God is not at fault or there's some other reason then fine but I'm sure most believers have asked themselves at least once.

And when you're told to pray and it'll help, then yes that pisses me off because God won't do anything.

Clearly potato hasn't read the thread properly if at all, going off their initial rant about the cruelty / evil people in the world when that's nothing to do with my OP or situation

But I did answer OP’s question. She wants to know how people who believe in God do not hate him. Because they don’t blame God for things people do or for inherited genetics, environmental factors etc...I hate to say duh, but duh.
I think it takes a certain level of intelligence not to hate God for something that has nothing to do with him.

@Somanysocks in most religions the devil is a part of god. Both in Judaic religions and Vedic religions the original early texts include both personalities as a part of the god entity. So blaming god and blaming the devil isn’t really distinct at a higher level.

@OP I would suggest you have a chat with someone from ISIKON (I’m not with them but their view of things - which I don’t agree with for various reasons that I won’t go into - is quite similar to my line of thinking). You may find it quite interesting and they’re usually pretty keen to explain things to new comers.

Oh fuck off potato, if you want to imply I'm stupid just say that. I'm not the only person who questions God over bad stuff.

If you could go through 11 miscarriages and not question or curse at God once then bravo, you must be so much wiser and wonderful than me and many others I imagine.

@potatobug So God is omnipotent but only in some cases? How do we know where to draw the line?

OP, I think your relative is being both dismissive of your problems and suffering, and unempathic in assuming that what works for them will work for you. I'd be very frustrated, in your shoes. I can't post a link but 'Dear God' by Sarah McLachlan may be something that will resonate with you and your current feelings.

I'm sorry you've been having such a hard time

You answered the question potato but were obviously too busy to read the thread and find out the context on the question (which I have to admit I sometimes do) and if you had you'd have maybe answered more sensitively.

OP I honestly can't stop thinking about you tonight, I can't imagine what you're going through and please speak to your relative when they next bring up God and just say if that helps them to think like that then fine but that it doesn't help you.

Essentially I agree, OP. I don't know whether there is a God, but if there is then I feel it must be a very frightening entity.