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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not know how anyone can believe in God or not hate him if they do?

221 replies

JustWearThePants · 19/02/2020 14:49

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I've a relative who's very religious and brings God into every conversation and situation.

I grew up going to church with my parents and always just took the 'who knows' approach afterwards.

I've been through an incredibly traumatic experience lately, where something happened and keeps happening to me which has left me broken, a shell of who I was, depressed and anxious, and just wanting to die so many times.

Yet this relative always wants to bring God into my situation. Tell me how he'll help, if I pray, if I 'give it to him' it will help me etc... I want to shout and shake them and tell them to wake up.

It's left me honestly baffled how anyone can either believe at all or, if they do, why they don't see him as a horrid bully who enjoys watching people suffer. All you have to do is watch the news to see what goes on in the world.

Before this happened I was okay just letting my relative and whoever believe whatever they believe but now I want to scream at anyone who brings it up. How could you possibly feel loved by someone who allows these things to happen to you?

I'm so angry at someone telling me the man in the sky will make everything better yet whenever I ask why he's let it happen in the first place they have no answer. It's all 'his plan' or some other crap. And how when I start to feel better it's because of God giving me strength when actually it's me, I've put in the effort, I've gone through the shit.

I don't want to see this person anymore but I can't as they are a close family member and I know no one else in the family would understand.

OP posts:
pipnchops · 19/02/2020 17:22

There is good and evil in the world (God and the Devil if you believe in all that) and when bad things happen it's curious why people get angry with the good and not the evil.

Embarrassedmumx · 19/02/2020 17:24

I don’t think I believe in god but your title is a bit nasty and provocative for those who do. It’s ok that you’re angry and it’s ok to reject religion but don’t make others feel stupid

AdaFromYorkshire · 19/02/2020 17:25

There is absolutely no scientific proof of a god. To me it's as much nonsense as the tooth fairy.

I am amazed at how many people, including some of my relatives, are brainwashed into believing in such a fiction. That said, some churches have interesting architecture.

shudup · 19/02/2020 17:26

Chops, given the circumstances, that's insensitive to the OP.
We're not taught to pray to the Devil.

We're taught to pray to God.

shudup · 19/02/2020 17:28

I don’t think I believe in god but your title is a bit nasty and provocative for those who do.

I take no offense whatsoever. I've been there.

There is absolutely no scientific proof of a god.

There's absolutely no scientific proof for a lot of things.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2020 17:29

I don’t think I believe in god but your title is a bit nasty and provocative for those who do. It’s ok that you’re angry and it’s ok to reject religion but don’t make others feel stupid

Wow. So, the OP posts because she's in pain because of what she's going through and it's being exacerbated by this unempathetic relative and she can't get her head round it, and she's mean to be tactful in case she makes a religious person feel stupid? Confused

Agingdisgracefully · 19/02/2020 17:30

Stephen Fry nailed it

What gets me is when people say things like. His cancer is cured !! It's a miracle. No mention of the skills and knowledge of the oncologist or the shedful of chemo drugs injected, the strength of the person and willl to survive. No. All down to,god. Bollocks to that

pipnchops · 19/02/2020 17:31

Apologies to the OP, it was just a thought that crossed my mind not directed at the OP specifically Flowers

whydoihavetogothroughsomuch · 19/02/2020 17:33

I'd prob be dead by now if I didn't have people praying for me.
I believe things happen for a reason but you don't always have to go to church to be a good person so to speak!!!

Original poster
JustWearThePants · 19/02/2020 17:37

It's not meant to be nasty, it's a genuine feeling I have right now. Right now I genuinely don't know how someone can believe in God or not think he's an arse if they do. Maybe it can be read provocatively but it's what I actually think at the moment, not said for the sake of being goady but true.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2020 17:38

I'd prob be dead by now if I didn't have people praying for me.

You may well genuinely believe so, which is fine. But, a well-known experiment to examine the effects of prayer had to be terminated early because believers who knew they were being prayed for were dying at a statistically significantly greater rate than the other groups so it would have been unethical to continue. This outcome wasn't expected, even skeptics were thinking there would be at least a placebo effect.

shudup · 19/02/2020 17:40

Can you explain love scientifically?

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2020 17:42

Can you explain love scientifically?

Yes, but that would be a whole other thread.Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2020 17:44

And, perhaps more in line with the OP you can certainly understand love in terms of humans, without any need to invoke gods.

shudup · 19/02/2020 17:46

I was looking for a song on youtube and this came up.

I've listened to about 2 minutes OP, but it seems meant for you.

MimiLaRue · 19/02/2020 17:47

@ErrolTheDragon

There have also been studies that have shown the psychological benefits of prayer on healing and the fact that going to church extends life expectancy by several years.

restawhile77 · 19/02/2020 17:48

So let’s blame God for all the bad things (because he caused them right?)
Who are we going to thank for all the wonderful things?

BillywigSting · 19/02/2020 17:52

I feel the same as you op and lost my (Catholic) faith very abruptly as a child when no amount of praying managed to save my friend from dying of leukaemia when we were 11.

We had just made our first holy communion together, and totally bought into the whole shebang, even had a sense of comfort that we would be looked after and everything would somehow be ok.

A year later he was dead.

I was utterly furious with the god I had put so much faith and love into, who I had been told was benevolent and loved everyone.

Well it seemed to me that he sure as shit didn't love my friend, or me, or any of his family, because if he did then why would he let us all suffer so much? Why would he let this happen to someone who believed in him so much?

No benevolent loving god would allow childhood cancer to be a thing. They just wouldn't. It's utterly cruel to everyone touched by it.

I never recovered my faith after that and even nearly 20 years later feel angry when I think about it.

So yanbu op at all, nor are you alone.

With regards to your relative I think pps advice of requesting they don't mention faith is a good idea. I hope your dark times end soon, but I don't pray for it.

restawhile77 · 19/02/2020 17:54

Why does the Op think bad things should not happen in this life. Confused

Original poster
JustWearThePants · 19/02/2020 17:56

So let’s blame God for all the bad things (because he caused them right?) Who are we going to thank for all the wonderful things?

We can question it can't we? We can wonder what type of God he is? Whether he is this benevolent all loving God or whether he's something else? Or do we just blindly believe no matter what happens that he's as we were taught?

As other posters have said they believe, maybe he is an unemotional, unconscious power to which human suffering is unimportant? I find that much easier to believe and make sense of the things that go on in the world.

OP posts:
pipnchops · 19/02/2020 18:00

Another way to look at it is that God is responsible for the good things in the world and the Devil is responsible for the bad things in the world. Or just don't believe anything is responsible and that its all just random and meaningless. I don't think it's helpful to blame God for not stopping bad things from happening, whether you believe or not.

MimiLaRue · 19/02/2020 18:03

maybe he is an unemotional, unconscious power to which human suffering is unimportant

If you believe this is true, then prayer is unimportant. You may as well be an atheist. I'm a bit baffled how this is somehow "better" tbh....

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2020 18:08

There have also been studies that have shown the psychological benefits of prayer on healing and the fact that going to church extends life expectancy by several years.

There may well be some psychological benefits to praying - along with many other religious and non religious practices.

The life expectancy 'fact' is interesting - it turns out on closer examination to be a statistical artefact resulting from the fact that fewer younger people are religious nowadays than their forebears. It's the same statistical mistake as is responsible for the 'fact' of left handed people dying younger than right handers.

Do left-handed people really die young? www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23988352

malificent7 · 19/02/2020 18:10

This is why im drawn to bhuddism...they acknowledge that life= suffering and give you the tools( meditation) to cope with it. Not that i practice it atm but i might take it up again some day. I feel pretty cynical about life atm.

Original poster
JustWearThePants · 19/02/2020 18:11

Well if God has no power to stop bad things from happening then he's not omnipotent.

I find it much easier to accept that he does have the unlimited power believe think he has, to stop these things or that he's an unemotional, unconscious power to which human suffering is unimportant than believing he could but chooses not to as some sort of test/punishment/because I didn't pray enough.

OP posts: