To not know how anyone can believe in God or not hate him if they do?

[JustWearThePants]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I've a relative who's very religious and brings God into every conversation and situation.

I grew up going to church with my parents and always just took the 'who knows' approach afterwards.

I've been through an incredibly traumatic experience lately, where something happened and keeps happening to me which has left me broken, a shell of who I was, depressed and anxious, and just wanting to die so many times.

Yet this relative always wants to bring God into my situation. Tell me how he'll help, if I pray, if I 'give it to him' it will help me etc... I want to shout and shake them and tell them to wake up.

It's left me honestly baffled how anyone can either believe at all or, if they do, why they don't see him as a horrid bully who enjoys watching people suffer. All you have to do is watch the news to see what goes on in the world.

Before this happened I was okay just letting my relative and whoever believe whatever they believe but now I want to scream at anyone who brings it up. How could you possibly feel loved by someone who allows these things to happen to you?

I'm so angry at someone telling me the man in the sky will make everything better yet whenever I ask why he's let it happen in the first place they have no answer. It's all 'his plan' or some other crap. And how when I start to feel better it's because of God giving me strength when actually it's me, I've put in the effort, I've gone through the shit.

I don't want to see this person anymore but I can't as they are a close family member and I know no one else in the family would understand.

there is not a Being who consciously makes a decision and hands down a ruling of what will happen

See that doesn't bother me.

It's the belief that's there's some man in the clouds who loves us all and yet can let us suffer at the same time whilst doing nothing. That isn't love to me.

I can understand the belief that you describe Bright because there's no consciousness, things just happen as part of nature, no emotion, no almighty being that loves us all so much, no him, things just are as they are.

Not sure if it would help at all, but if you think it might help you work through your feelings and thoughts, you could go to see a vicar (or other religious minister) and get their take on it.

YANBU.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil? Epicurius, ~300 BC

Your relative is being unkind and tactless. Tell them that if it helps them to pray for you, by all means carry on in private but to stop tormenting you.

This last year has been unbelievably hard. As a religious professional I know my theodicy. In the worst bits of last year I found comfort in the psalms and my belief that God doesn't cause all the horrible things to happen but, in a way I don't fully understand, is with me in the mess and rubbish. I realise this isn't the angry old man in the sky view of God that many seem to think Christians believe in. I haven't held that image of God since I was about fifteen.

I'm sure the OP's relative is trying to help. Sometimes telling enthusiastic religious relatives and friends to keep stum as you don't want to hear it is a way forward.

Sorry you are going through such a horrible time.

Mauv, that's probably a good idea but I'm too raw and angry at the moment. I wouldn't trust myself to be the polite person that I usually am right now.

It's the belief that's there's some man in the clouds who loves us all and yet can let us suffer at the same time whilst doing nothing. That isn't love to me

So, this begs the question- what would indicate love? Should everyone’s life go exactly according to what they want? Should we get everything we want in life? What if what you want directly contradicts what someone else wants- who should “win” in a scenario like that. Who gets to decide? Would you like to live a life where you are “happy” the entire time with never any sadness and wouldn’t “happy” just become the norm if it was felt all the time? How would you even know what happiness was or appreciate it without ever experiencing sadness?

I’m not minimising you’re distress- just throwing in some questions that would most certainly arise if we all got exactly what we wanted all the time. I’m just not sure that indicates “love”

I believe in God for a number of reasons. I think this is a really horrible post.

I appreciate that if believing in God helps people in life, then it's a good thing, whether it's real or not.
However, what I can't stand is blind faith that defies all logic or tact. Whatever helps you sleep at night, but I don't like it when it gets rammed down other people's throats.

My DM is always telling me that I ought to believe in God because of something that happened to me and my recovery was a "miracle." It annoys me endlessly because as far as I'm concerned - only a very twisted fucked up God would have let things get that bad.

If "he above" created everything and gave people free will so terrible things can happen, he's still defined the parameters of "free will" to a pretty messed up level. If everything bad is explained as "God can't control everything" that seems a bit of a cop out.

What bugs me most is my DM telling me my recovery was down to God whereas it was down to the optimistic belief of doctors, their skill and diligence and my perseverance through excruciating pain - that was down to me. It annoys me because it discounts everything I did and if you look at the way people are describing God's abilities and inabilities, then that's a rather twisted deity that I'd prefer not to believe in thank you!

I believe in God for a number of reasons. I think this is a really horrible post.

Do you mean the OPs or one of the others?
What's happening to her is horrible, for sure. Is that what you meant?

Then don't read it? It's abundantly clear from the title what it contains.

I have decided to live and let live.

I went to a catholic school until I was 16. Since then my parents have allowed me to make up my own mind, and as I've become older, I've become less and less religious.

I don't want anyone telling me how to live my life, who to love, what to believe.

Live your life for you x

Sorry you're going through a difficult time.

I agree with you. If there is a God, and allows all this pain and suffering, then I don't want to know him. He's nasty.

I think this is a really horrible post.

So it's not okay to question religion when things like this happen?

Russell Brands Hair, Agree completely .Also a friend of ours who had a child that died very young was comforted and told"Gods Crying too" .The thing is with Religion ,we often take a "shopping list" to God and expect him to answer every single thing there and then! Someone once told me Faith is a gift and prayers are answered somewhat differently than we expect.I feel for you having many miscarriages ,when you could be a caring doting Mum while the drug addict has yet another child she cannot look after .Somehow the unfairness of life seems unbearable.yet this is just life on Earth really ,We are all flawed in some way or another or as I tell my own DD who has had a lot struggles ,we would all be in Nirvana! I hope things improve for you .Take Care, sending hugs /prayers to you xx

I guess I see it this way: someone gave me a chance at life and whatever I do with it, whatever happens is up to me. And I should be friggin thankful for the opportunity.

I think all the shit stuff that ends up happening is probably a test. When bad things happen do we turn from God? Or do we turn to him?

You have to remember that those of faith believe in a place after this. For Christians, heaven. I see earth is just like a test to see if we are suitable for the next step. I think we all agreed to this test before we got here. But we aren't allowed to remember that because otherwise of course we would remain loyal.

I also believe that we are pretty much left to it. I think God is probably busy with other projects. And that's fair enough. Why are we so deserving of saving? The human race is pretty rotten. And its understandable that he doesn't intervene to find me a hot boyfriend or help me lose that last 6 lbs when his Angels have the nasty fallen Angels to deal with and he's...busy in his man cave somewhere lol.

We should take responsibility for ourselves in this world. Be thankful for the chance.

What bugs me most is my DM telling me my recovery was down to God whereas it was down to the optimistic belief of doctors, their skill and diligence and my perseverance through excruciating pain - that was down to me. It annoys me because it discounts everything I did and if you look at the way people are describing God's abilities and inabilities, then that's a rather twisted deity that I'd prefer not to believe in thank you

This has articulated everything I feel - thank you!

As you say, I feel it discounts everything I've been through. That's all been me. With the support of the people around me. But it's me who lies in hospital beds, it's me who does for surgery after surgery, it's me who has to keep it together when they tell me the heartbeats stopped again. And yet to my relative, God gets all the credit for that.

I've never had a problem in people believing what they want to believe but it's hard to get this rammed down your throat all the time and feel like you can't say what you actually think.

I have a relative like this. I believe it’s a coping mechanism and it works for her so I respect it.

Everyone has their own way to deal with things and she needs to respect that.

How can it be part of god's plan that innocent children die and are dying from dreadful illnesses, from wholly unwarranted physical abuse, and from man's inhumanity to man in the various wars that afflict this planet?

If you have a parent who wraps you in cotton wool, protects you from all ills, and safeguards you from association with anything remotely unpleasant, what would you learn?

These are two sides of the coin and, while I do not believe in the man made gods of organised religion, I do believe that there is a greater power and some purpose to our existence even if, at the present time, it is unfathomable us.

Your relative has beliefs that are untenable to you but, in their own clumsy way, they are endeavouring to bring you comfort by absolving you of any responsibility for the plight you find yourself in and, in exhorting you to pray to the god of their making, they hope that you will find the same solace that they derive from their beliefs.

There's no point in being angry with 'god', or blaming him/her/it for whatever afflicts us, either individually or collectively. Similarly, there's no point in being angry with your relative and you are best advised to put your energies into resolving, rising above, or coming to terms with whatever situation you find yourself in.

I see earth is just like a test to see if we are suitable for the next step

So... the OPs suffering is cosmic A levels? Except only some people have to do them? and this is supposed to be the will of a good and omnipotent god?

This 'loving god' seems to trust his 'children' in ways which normal human parents wouldn't dream of.

Watch this video

I'm sort of where you're at OP. Except I have given up the fight.
'He' can send me his worst. I'm done fighting.

But on the other hand, when I gave up the fight, I felt a strength. Almost like a presence.

I don't know that the hell this dude is playing at. I don't know what sort of lesson we're supposed to learn. I really don't. I just don't know.

I've spent years crying and screaming and being on my knees roaring at God to help me. I can reliably inform you that he hasn't.

I don't have the answers lady. I wish I had.

I don't follow religions. I argue with 'God' myself.

'Treat' his children, not 'trust'.

I think these sorts of conversations all end up with people saying things like 'we can't have everything we want' as if we're talking about praying for a mansion and a load of money, or comparing truly awful situations to things like

find me a hot boyfriend or help me lose that last 6 lbs when his Angels have the nasty fallen Angels to deal with

When the truth is they are completely different and most people know it. It's one thing asking for a 'hot boyfriend' and quite another begging and the floor for help because you are on the verge of suicide.

I'm not asking for everything I want. I want help. And I've never seen it come from anyone except real people.

I believe in god (agnostically). I am also a big believer in metaphysics and personal accountability. I genuinely believe that things that happen to you don’t truly matter beyond the way they help you develop on a metaphysical level and that god doesn’t intervene for that reason. I know that sounds harsh when you see children dying etc but equally you see some people who improve as a result of those kinds of tragedies. I don’t know how, I don’t think I would but then again I didn’t think that I could cope with the things that I have coped woth beforehand. I don’t believe in the whole ‘surrender unto god and he will deliver you’ stuff though. I see it more as, if there is a god out there, for whatever reason it(?) deems human suffering unimportant and maybe it knows something that I don’t do I could probably learn from that example. Or, in the alternative, god simply doesn’t exist.

I guess I see him as like a mad scientist who is busy inventing other things. A genius you know. It's not that he doesn't care for us, it's just that he has so much more in his head.

I think everyone hates religion being preached at them though. But I also hate atheism being preached at me. I never mention my faith because seemingly normal assed people suddenly feel the need to tell me God isn't real. Or look at me like I've just told them I believe in the tooth fairy lol.