To not know how anyone can believe in God or not hate him if they do?

[JustWearThePants]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I've a relative who's very religious and brings God into every conversation and situation.

I grew up going to church with my parents and always just took the 'who knows' approach afterwards.

I've been through an incredibly traumatic experience lately, where something happened and keeps happening to me which has left me broken, a shell of who I was, depressed and anxious, and just wanting to die so many times.

Yet this relative always wants to bring God into my situation. Tell me how he'll help, if I pray, if I 'give it to him' it will help me etc... I want to shout and shake them and tell them to wake up.

It's left me honestly baffled how anyone can either believe at all or, if they do, why they don't see him as a horrid bully who enjoys watching people suffer. All you have to do is watch the news to see what goes on in the world.

Before this happened I was okay just letting my relative and whoever believe whatever they believe but now I want to scream at anyone who brings it up. How could you possibly feel loved by someone who allows these things to happen to you?

I'm so angry at someone telling me the man in the sky will make everything better yet whenever I ask why he's let it happen in the first place they have no answer. It's all 'his plan' or some other crap. And how when I start to feel better it's because of God giving me strength when actually it's me, I've put in the effort, I've gone through the shit.

I don't want to see this person anymore but I can't as they are a close family member and I know no one else in the family would understand.

Sums up my thoughts on it

No one has the right to impose their religious views onto another imo and I am a Christian.

I think you either believe or you dont.

I think it isn't God's job to help anyone. That's our job. To reach out to others where possible, to help them and for help. Or use your smarts. Which I guess I'd argue are god given.

Praying is more of a 'hey look at this shit thats happening rn'. To feel less alone you know. I dont think believing in him means he will step in and fix things. Not that it can never happen of course.

I believe taking personal responsibility for our own lives. And understanding that he probably has a shit load of other responsibilities that we cant begin to understand. So he have us the tools to deal and we just have to try our best.

I wasn't brought up to be religious and I had some really awful things happen to me in childhood. I used to feel exactly like you do, very angry towards religion generally and sometimes the people who believed.

As I've gotten older, I'm quite happy with my life and I genuinely wouldn't take back the awful things that have happened to me as I'd have a different life to what I have now, which may have been better but the point is I don't know. I'm still not religious but I can see how terrible things can lead to a good bigger picture iyswim.

That being said, your relative is pushing her beliefs onto you and needs to stop. I'm pretty much ambivalent towards religion now and I still wouldn't appreciate being told that God has a plan for me or that whatever I'm going through might get better if I pray etc.

I agree with this - Praying is more of a 'hey look at this shit thats happening rn'. To feel less alone you know. I dont think believing in him means he will step in and fix things. If you have faith, then praying and believing in God is a comfort that you can survive whatever has happened.

But if you don't, and have never believed in him, then praying during a bad time is not going to suddenly comfort you. That's not how faith works.

Sums up my thoughts as a response to Stephen Fry

apologetics-notes.comereason.org/2015/02/how-would-stephen-fry-answer-his-own.html?m=1

People that are religious believe god created everything right? So he created evil, diseases, people that do horrible things. It's a bit of cop out to then pick and choose and say well actually it was that persons fault, but if god created that person he created the evil.

Who says it’s God do it though. How do you know it’s not Satan causing all the suffering.

It's far too easy to assume the moral high ground and judge God when it suits you

Just like the religious pick and choose what suits them is down to god and what isn't.

Who says it’s God do it though. How do you know it’s not Satan causing all the suffering

Quite.

I don't believe in any sky fairies and that includes satan.

@JustWearThePants I can't give you any advice on the whole "God" business as I do not believe and can't stand people who try to convince me otherwise, there's too much hatred in the world to even possibly think that this 'God' is a good thing but it gives people hope and something to follow which is why people wrote the Bible I suppose.

I just wanted to tell you to keep your head up, see a counsellor and force yourself to keep going, I know it's extremely hard but you will get there I promise. I've suffered multiple miscarriages in the past 3 years and I'm 24 I honestly feel your pain. I'm wanting to tell you not to give up because it can happen. I'm currently 16.4 weeks now and its the furthest I've ever gotten. Hold on to that hope that you will be a mother and sure as hell do not let it go. If you ever want to chat you're more than welcome to message me.
x

God created free will and from that stems the possibility of good or evil. To deny that opportunity would have been to remove freedom. And technically he only created two ppl. Is your great grandmother responsible for your actions? People have choice, people choose their actions, not god. Diseases are often man made. And true evil? ...have you never been betrayed? Never loved someone and they turned out to be rotten? Well that's what happened to god.

Try thinking of God not as someone who can fix everything but someone who is there no matter what to help you through things. Like a parent, you can't stop your children suffering things but you can be there to help and support them. That's how I see God. I can't believe that he can actually control everything and make everything perfect in the world because we have free will.

Pink, there are so many things that aren't man made though? Am I suffering now because Eve ate a forbidden apple? Or do I deserve it somehow?

It's alright to say things like ' a lot of diseases are man made' but so many things aren't. So are these punishments then for past betrayals?

I think the thing that I really take away from the Stephen Fry interview is where he says atheism isn't just about not believing in God but about questioning, on the assumption he's real, what kind of God he is. Which is where I'm at.

Some things, some of the worst things, are nothing to do with choice or free will.

Try thinking of God not as someone who can fix everything but someone who is there no matter what to help you through things.

I can't, common sense stops me.

I have my husband and best friend who are always there n matter what.

If it makes you feel better about things then go for it, but it's not for me.

OP I’m reading Mythos by Stephen Fry at the moment. It’s a great read - a re-telling of the Greek myths, written in a wonderful accessible way.

It is obvious that the Christian story is based on older historical sources such as the Greek creation myths. Seeing the historical parallels in pre-Christian stories might help you see the ways in which Christianity itself has also evolved as a story, albeit a compelling and immensely influential one.

But I take it back to 'free choice'. He allows us to choose our way in the world, make our own decisions, and unfortunately some people choose bad choices.

No, awful things don’t happen to people because of their choice.
Explain to me how my DP’s mother developed an aggressive terminal cancer and died at 54 by choice? Leaving behind her children and a devoted husband?

Tell me how my mums husbands mother died from a terminal lung cancer she had only for months, she never smoked in her life and was a healthy, fit and active person.

Tell me how Madeline McCann made a choice to disappear off the face of the earth.

Tell me how every person who has been raped, chose that to happen.

The little actual free choice we have, doesn’t come from a pissing god.

I have spent most of this year in and out of children hospitals. Why would I want to worship any God who allows so much pain and suffering to many many babies and children? Tim Minchin and Stephen Fry have it right. The argument above against Stephen Fry is nonsensical.

Jesus sounded ok for his time. The Old Testament is hideous. The bible is a book of stories. I have let people pray for my daughter (they have asked permission which is nice) as it makes them feel like they are doing something. However they aren’t so daft as to say ‘it’s in Gods hands’ etc. to me.

Actually what I would prefer them to is offer to go shopping or look after Dd for a while while I have a rest. Rather than praying and lighting a candle which makes it feel like they were helping.

I thought it was that interview alright.
The interviewer was a believer unbelievably.
If an atheist is what consoles you now, that's what you need in your life.

I dont agree with Stephen Fry at all and frankly, Ive gone off him after his sexist comments about women and sex

I guess it's easier to blame those things on either us as human beings (choice and freewill despite the fact they have very little to do with any of the examples of this thread) or on a devil, rather than wondering whether God maybe isn't the all loving, all wonderful thing people believe he is.

OP - is there any way that you might be able to commemorate this little baby's life? A song? A minute's silence? Light a candle for their little soul? Naming a teddy after her or him? And all your lost babies.

I think you're right to be angry with God btw.