To be terrified by the Australian rugby coach setting his family on fire?

[SeasonallySnowyPeasant]

In brief: earlier today an Australian ex-rugby player was in the car with his wife and their three children, poured petrol over her and set her alight. She, he and the children all died. The parents were ending their marriage and disputing custody over the children.

It’s absolutely horrific and I just wonder why there seem to be no depths to which some men - and it almost always is men - will sink when it comes to asserting their dominance over women and children. Throwing acid over them seems to be the newest ‘thing’ over the past 3 years. Assault, rape, stalking, harassment, murder are so common as to be un-newsworthy.

It scares me. My exH was abusive and I have a non-molestation order to prevent him from continuing the abuse. At the back of my mind I worry about him taking something I do/say as pushing him too far and being seriously hurt or killed. What if he decides one day to kill our DC?

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

Thank you for your post.
I'm so sorry for what all those men did.

Thank you @FrogsFrogs

It's so obviously true it shouldn't need stating again and again and again.

Yet everyone has to because for some reason the topic triggers a lot of defensiveness. It's a bit weird.

Maybe men are more likely to see themselves as individuals than part of a wider group? Whereas women etc are used to being addressed as if we are a homogenous group (by those who don't like us) and used to class analyses from various orgs who want to help.

Do men freak out when the headlines say boys don't do as well as girls in exams, saying not all boys, some do very well...? Not sure.

In my town we have a memorial stone for 4 children killed by their father, he left a lawn mower running and left a hose through the window.(18 years ago)
They were 6,5,4 and 2 years old. His reason was the court had imposed conditions of his contact.
The mother in the past had been attacked and hospitalised a number of times but had always taken him back. But when she realised that enough was enough
and left him, on his FIRST access he killed the children.
Oh and to rub salt into the wound he didn't kill himself he only served 12 years and his living his life while the mum had a break down and was eventually
committed to a mental hospital.

I would be surprised if anyone on the thread thinks every man in the world is at immediate risk of burning his family to death.

And yet it's those who want to talk about male violence who are accused of generalisation and being OTT!

@JacquesHammer But if someone started blaming the incident on rugby, said we need to watch out for those rugby players, they are a dangerous bunch, strong enough to cause damage, use to violence etc etc -would you not point that 'Not All Rugby Players Are Like That'?

"Why won’t rugby players sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?" - Would you not point out that not all rugby players are to blame for the actions of a few?

But if someone started blaming the incident on rugby, said we need to watch out for those rugby players, they are a dangerous bunch, strong enough to cause damage, use to violence etc etc -would you not point that 'Not All Rugby Players Are Like That'?

No. Critical thinking would tell me that it wasn't applied to all and those of us who are not displaying those behaviours don't need to be worried.

Would you not point out that not all rugby players are to blame for the actions of a few?

I would be agreeing we should do what we can.

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

Yes let's blame all men

Men couldn't give a shit. ALL men couldn't give a shit, even the supposed 'nice' ones. If they did, they'd do something. But they don't.

See, people don't like it when some men get defensive but can you blame them when women put out poisonous shit like that? Because it is just bollocks, really it is. Why shouldn't Shatner ask what's the best way to give realistic help? Half of you have a go, FFS. And he's right, you say "condemn it" - condemning it will do fuck all as those types couldn't give a toss, and you speak to the guys who do give a toss like a piece of shit.

If a man came on here to moan about his latest relationship and made a generalising comment about all women being X Y or Z everyone would pounce like a shot. If a man calls a woman "a girl" all hell breaks lose, but I've never seen a woman pulled up for using "a boy" - 99% of the time it's not derogatory but just shorthand for boyfriend or girlfriend. Women can go out with the girls, but men can't refer to them that way.

And for all the talk of "make sure you bring up your sons the right way" - there are plenty of kids who had great home lives, treated well by parents who still turn out to be rapists and abusers.

Unfortunately, as another poster sort of said, a cunt is a cunt. There are clearly far more violent cunts among men than women, but suggesting the good men condemn the bad will change anything is naive, simplistic nonsense.

Men do generalise like that with no stats to back it up eg all women are crazy. Also when a woman ‘lies’ about being raped (eg it doesn’t go to court) she’s ‘making it harder for all rape victims’. So why do stats backing up that men are overwhelming responsible for violence to women and children not result in ‘he’s making it harder for all men to be thought of as safe for women and children to be around’.

i understand why your scared in the situtation you are in op.but try not to let fear disable you.it will end up making worse life for you and your dc.fear builds and feeds on fear.
are you doing all you can to keep eachother safe and loved.then that is all you can ever do.
i know its easier said than done but all this will do is create stories in your head of what might happen,and then hes won anyway.and hes still then keeping you trapped and abused by him.

As the saying goes “Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them”.
It sickens me, a thread about male family annillalators becomes about NAMALT.

I've always found it hilarious that a common Mumsnet trope is any man who claims to have an unhinged or difficult female former partner is a lying scumbag, and it's a massive red flag, yet in every 'relationships' thread there are Mumsnetters detailing at length how unhinged and difficult their male former partners are. That's not a red flag in any form though, for some reason, and nobody accuses them of lying.

Generalisations are everywhere, both men and women use them, constantly.

The people who argue against the statistics and facts that show this is a problem with male violence, don't want to find solutions. And honestly I think people who deny facts, who deny figures, who deny statistics, don't have a place in these discussions.
They don't want a serious place at the table. They don't want to suggest solutions. They want to maintain the status quo whilst trying to shift us to a post-fact society. The irony is that it won't stop them being affected by male violence - whether they're male or female. Shouting 'not all men' is not a badge of safety. It may get you some likes on rather dubious forums but that's about it.

mikecarter your post made my soul ache. I’m so sorry for what you endured.

josef your posts OTOH, well your supposed obfuscation is derailing and tiresome. Perhaps you can hold more than one idea in your mind at a time. Men as a class are far more violent than women. Some men are lovely and not violent. Try it. You can do it.

@StillDrSethHazlittMD Take a bow. That sums up everything.

Unfortunately, as another poster sort of said, a cunt is a cunt. There are clearly far more violent cunts among men than women, but suggesting the good men condemn the bad will change anything is naive, simplistic nonsense.

If the conversation was posed seriously though, if the question was 'male-perpetrated violence is a huge problem, what can we do about it?' posters wouldn't scream NAMALT. It's the raging undercurrent of all males being violent psychopathic cunts that drags everything down and brings out NAMALT as the response.

Obviously it isn’t all men. But, all of the men I know closely, father, brothers, uncles, male friends and ex partners never ever criticise male behaviour, they never, When in a group and a male makes a sexist remark say to that man stop that isn’t right. They circulate sexist jokes in what’s app groups and never say no that’s not right. Even when they have daughters they still don’t see poor male behaviour unless it directly affects their daughter or wife.

The people who argue against the statistics and facts that show this is a problem with male violence, don't want to find solutions

And when a man asks what he could do, he got basically a tirade of crap from some posters, or told to think of his own solution! Is that helpful? Not in the least.

And what are these solutions? Because, with the best will in the world, the ones proposed by the OP are all well and good and I agree that's how people should behave to each other, but to the sorts of people we're talking about, it will make no difference.

I also agree with another poster in that a lot of nice guys probably genuinely don't experience the crap we want them to condemn because they don't mix with the other sort of guys. Like attracts like.

@Thuglife

It sickens me, a thread about male family annillalators becomes about NAMALT.

I find that's usually because they invariably feature an almost instantaneous, generalised, ignorant AMALT post, which then sparks irritation and an response.

It's totally understandable that people post things through anger and frustration, but then I genuinely find it baffling that people have such an aggressive response when it's pointed out that the generalisation is totally misplaced.

Nobody is denying that the vast majority of violence against women and families is perpetrated by men, but at the same time, it's totally unacceptable to decry 'men' as a generic group when it's still only the actions of a tiny, tiny minority of men we're discussing. On here, nobody would get away with attributing the actions of one or a small minority of women down to the fact they're women and one and all are the same, so can we at least afford men the same courtesy?

See, people don't like it when some men get defensive but can you blame them when women put out poisonous shit like that?

Excuse me?! I think you mean SOME women, don’t you?

Terrified?

Because someone who you don't even know somewhere far away did something violent?

get a grip.

I'm with you OP, I work in children's services and the lack of criminal consequence for DV is terrifying. Women lose their children because the criminal justice system and media do not care

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

What you should have said is 'why won't abusive men sort their lives out'

It's not all men, it's a minority of men who treat women and children in this despicable way. I hope he had a very painful death.

Someone once told me that some men hate women more than they love their children. It chilled me.

Look at the bloody statistics, more women than not are beaten or sexually assaulted by men. Children have their mental health changed forever and we sit back and say 'but it's only some of them'