To think that this country is utterly corrupt?

[bingbangbing]

After the Sabinsky scandal, I can't help but think this.

This government was elected on a pack of lies, I think we all know that there will not be 40 new hospitals etc

Even before Boris took over, we had Hancock giving speeches from the HQ of Babylon.

The attacks on the media are nothing short of dictatorial- the gov is going after the BBC and has made threatening noises towards C4.

We were one of the most respected governments- the mother of all parliaments, an old and stable country. Famous for reason and restraint.

What the fuck happened?

@Friendsafterdating

"It tended to be that leavers thought they supported remain and vice versa so in any case the jury is out on that".

That sort of indicates that they weren't biased at all

Yes maybe. I still think they tend to recite what’s happening without being critical enough. Much prefer C4 news for that reason.

The biggest lie of recent years was first Brexit then the promise of a second referendum look to the MP’s who voted for article 50 to be triggered while also promising a second referendum

It was never ever going to happen yet how many got pulled in believing it would simply because they wanted to likewise in how many voted for Brexit believing life would improve

In response to a comment up thread: I think continually bashing ourselves over our ancestors empire exploits is a bit ridiculous now.
Last I heard no one continually give Italy grief over the Roman Empire. Germany seems to have been forgiven for the last two world wars which were very much still vividness in peoples memories and yet we still go on about the British empire and how we should all be punished for it.

An in comparison so a lot of countries we are very much not corrupt!

There was no recruitment process- that's how he got in.

*vivid!

YANBU OP

I am of mixed heritage and given the recent rise in what I would describe as xenophobic behaviour of this government was thinking about getting citizenship from my parents country of birth.

But with what happened last week with the Jamaican deportees I'm not going to do it. I will not give this government any opportunity to send me or my children "back home".

We are English and will stay to fight for our rights.

It is utterly horrendous what this government is doing to this country but we must keep saying it is not acceptable. They can't take our voices.

In response to a comment up thread: I think continually bashing ourselves over our ancestors empire exploits is a bit ridiculous now.

I don't bash the country over it. I think apologising for the actions of the long-dead is absurd. However, I've seen quite a lot of anti-British sentiment over the years and it's certainly not a new phenomenon, so I presume it comes down to that.

Of course there is plenty of anti-British sentiment in the wake of the horrors of colonialism.

However, I think that a lot of that was mixed with a grudging respect. We may be twats but we were generally well run, logical twats. Now we have a bunch of clowns and extremists in power

nowhere is perfect and we indeed have a lot wrong. But we need to pay a lot more taxes to have the facilities we need for 70 million people. And we refuse to vote for that so get what we vote for.

It hasn't got worse. Google on the Blair government or the Hamiltons
Or Lloyd George and the honours system.
Incredibly (to myself), I now look back on things like this with some nostalgia.

Going after the BBC, which for all its faults is free and unbiased (or equally biased to/against every side). Going after the judiciary (enemies of the people). Undermining the civil service by consolidating power to No. 10.
Sabinsky, I am sure, was a 'canary in the coal mine' experiment; to see how much people would accept and how far they could push things.
The Overton Window as a concept seems almost to be of a bygone era now. And I don't even apologise for using terms like 'fascist' and 'totalitarianism' these days.

OP I have sympathy with some of the things that you say. I understand why you and others strongly disagree with some government policies. But policies that you and others may disagree with is not the same thing as corruption. To conflate the two hurts your argument. Like I said, corruption is 'dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.'

However, I think that a lot of that was mixed with a grudging respect.

I think maybe our self-respect has been tarnished somewhat by watching the embarrassing debacle that was Brexit (honestly, it was such a farce). National pride and our idea of the character of our government has taken a hit. I'm not convinced that we've ever really been in receipt of much respect from the other countries though.

@olivehater, I do agree.
Other European countries had empires and they don’t seem to beat themselves up endlessly about it. At the time it was what many countries did - if they could.

As for Germany/Ww2, obviously nobody can blame later generations for any of it, so I don’t see why on earth Brits should still be self-loathing over our empire.

As for Brits being ‘generally hated’, as a pp said, having both lived abroad and travelled very extensively around the world, including in several areas of our former empire, I honestly can’t say I’ve ever felt or noticed any such thing. If anything, rather the reverse.

Maybe clowns and extremists are the price of democracy. I always thought is was a mistake to give the great general public a choice on brexit.
Personally I would like these things decided by people that are informed and educated about the consequences.

Sabinsky, I am sure, was a 'canary in the coal mine' experiment; to see how much people would accept and how far they could push things.. Oh God I hadn’t thought of it like that but it makes sense and makes it even more chilling ☹️☹️.

Ok so it’s interesting people are defining ‘corrupt’ in different ways, and holing to the absolutism of ‘utterly corrupt’. Until every local official in the country is taking bribes to do their job, there isn’t a problem. To rephrase then, are this country’s law and order systems weakening? Can people disregard the law with more freedom than they used to? Beyond the law, do more people act unethically than they used to? Undoubtedly the answer to that is yes, looking at landlords and employers. That poor people have less access to law for redress is widely acknowledged, and there are many taking advantage of that.

And Brexit is such a continuing farce. It ain’t over, and we’re still at risk of No Deal.

Personally I would like these things decided by people that are informed and educated about the consequences.

The problem is that that's not a democracy. That's a meritocracy. Which in itself isn't a bad thing, necessarily, but when your education system is so unequal, so geared towards the wealthy, it does mean that a meritocracy becomes a system whereby the rich get their interests represented because they went to school with the ruling class and are old friends. Then everyone else develops an inherent distrust of the system and so votes to destabilise it.

And Brexit is such a continuing farce. It ain’t over, and we’re still at risk of No Deal.

It was a farce mainly because of all the embarrassing infighting. At least now there's a sizable majority we won't be wasting everyone's time bickering amongst ourselves whilst getting precisely nowhere. I'd really rather have had a decisive no deal than the months of indecision and sniping we did have (while everyone else laughed at our total lack of direction).

I think, OP, what we're witnessing is the actual possibility (not the actuality, just to make that clear) of Britain descending into an illiberal democracy.
That said, this is still an incredibly stable and safe country. But undeniably it is sliding and rather quickly. We're in the grip of a very bad government, being led by those with no scruples but enough insight to know how to pretend to have scruples: in other words, the sociopaths are running shit. But this is nothing new, really. Who has always been attracted to the power of politics? Usually not very nice people.

800 libraries closed since 2010. Cut cut cut. Still, that’s what people vote for. No “magic money trees” etc apart from when it comes to funding bank bailouts and wars.

Brexit. If that isn't The Greatest Example With Bells On of dividing and conquering your people, what else is?

If you think landlords are more corrupt nowadays, perhaps you need to examine what happened in Victorian times, and the post-war years... particularly where we get the phrase Rachmanism from.
We have dozens more H&S laws now, and acts such as equality act. We have housing benefit that pays for housing itself for those that cannot afford it.

Oh and Brexit (estimated cost to the economy of £150 billion so far, and this is just the run up)