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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be worried about coronavirus part 3

999 replies

peridito · 18/02/2020 09:28

starting this in case ivybush is busy

previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3819574-AIBU-to-ask-if-you-are-worried-about-the-new-coronavirus-continued

OP posts:
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30
RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 19:18

So it turns out the Italian authorities assumed that patient zero (guy who returned from China and ate with the 38 year old) had asymptomatic coronavirus. They are now saying he never had the virus so they don't know the source of the Lombardy outbreak.

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 19:22

Panic buying starting in Italy...

ofwarren · 22/02/2020 19:24

Do you have a link showing the panic buying? It will be good for the preppers board to see.

Jenasaurus · 22/02/2020 19:26

Just read and translated this Italian news source

For a few hours now, a fake image with the logo of the news site "VeneziaToday" has been circulating on social networks with the title of a fake article about a second case of Coronavirus positivity in the Venetian. The same website, VeneziaToday, reports this to Ansa, pointing out that "the image, as false as the content of the article, was artificially created to damage VeniceToday and to create unjustified social scaremongering. The Citynews Editorial Group, publisher of VeniceToday, has already filed a complaint with the Postal Police to identify the author of the fake image."

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/02/22/news/coronavirus_in_italia_aggiornamento_ora_per_ora-249241616/?refresh_ce

Does this mean the virus updates are incorrect, I am confused

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 19:38

France News 24 @francenews24
INFO - #Iran : Les habitants de #Talesh protestent contre le transfert de 4 patients atteints de #coronavirus vers un hôpital de la ville. Les forces de sécurité de l'État ont tiré des gaz lacrymogènes après le déclenchement des manifestations. #COVID19

French news reporting protests in Talesh, Iran over 4 patients being moved.

There's been a few tweets about Riots and protests this evening in Iran.

meredithgrey1 · 22/02/2020 19:41

I know - why no coverage? Italy have declaired a state of emergency and locked down 10 towns.

I agree, it's odd. The only mention I can find on the bbc website is in the "European football" section in an article about cancelled matches.

meredithgrey1 · 22/02/2020 19:43

There's been a few tweets about Riots and protests this evening in Iran.

Not surprising, a similar thing happened in Ukraine didn't it? Over some fake news?

Zorona · 22/02/2020 19:48

I know the virus has managed to spread in spring like temperatures. But just thinking hotter temperature of approx 30C maybe it can’t survive and that is why it hasn’t reached Africa yet

IvyBush123 · 22/02/2020 19:52

@Zorona It spreading in Singapore. It’s hot over there... on the other hand lots if air conditioning. I hope that this is the case and summer will kill it.

Axlcat · 22/02/2020 19:52

Been following this thread since it started and was concerned early on but definitely more so now. I agree that the lack of media coverage about Italy seems odd. I have a question. If it causes pneumonia in severe cases (amongst other things) does anyone know if having a pneumonia vaccine will offer any level of protection at all? Obviously it’s not going to stop it but will it help at all?

Zorona · 22/02/2020 19:54

Ivybush, it would maybe explain lack of cases in Africa 🤞

babychange12 · 22/02/2020 19:54

Pneumonia vaccine is against a bacteria so wouldn't protect I don't think

The pneumococcal vaccine protects against serious and potentially fatal pneumococcal infections. It's also known as the pneumonia vaccine. Pneumococcal infections are caused by the bacterium Streptococcus pneumoniae and can lead to pneumonia, septicaemia (a kind of blood poisoning) and meningitis.

ofwarren · 22/02/2020 19:55

@Axlcat it causes viral pneumonia and our vaccine is for bacterial pneumonia. There have been some cases where they got the bacterial case too but generally, it's viral that's killing people.

Mittens030869 · 22/02/2020 19:58

@Axlcat I suspect not. I had pneumonia last year, following a bad bout of flu. Pneumonia is normally a bacterial infection and can be treated with antibiotics. Coronavirus is a virus, and no one has said that it can be treated with antibiotics if it becomes pneumonia. I interpret that to mean that it's a kind of viral pneumonia, which is very scary if it can't be treated with antibiotics.

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 20:00

www.ibtimes.com/italys-second-coronavirus-death-sparks-fears-lockdowns-2927004

A 77-year-old woman died on Saturday near the small town of Codogno in Lombardy in the north, a day after a 78-year-old retired bricklayer succumbed to the virus in the neighbouring region of Veneto

Details of 2nd death

Mittens030869 · 22/02/2020 20:02

@ofwarren cross post, yes that's what I gathered; i haven't heard it spelt out, but it clearly figures, as no one has mentioned antibiotics being used to treat coronavirus.

It's very scary for me, because I've been very much weakened since suffering pneumonia last year and I've now got Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and go down with any infection going rounf.

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 20:07

It's viral pneumonia. Not bacterial. So antibiotics only useful for secondary infection caused by virus, not the virus itself.

ofwarren · 22/02/2020 20:09

I was the same last year mittens I caught influenza A in February and ended up with pneumonia. I was on antibiotics and tamiflu.
The flu vaccine wasnt very effective at all last year.

IvyBush123 · 22/02/2020 20:24

Venecia Giulia declares state of emergency. Universities and Courts in the region will be closed starting Monday

www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-italia/coronavirus-friuli-venezia-giulia-stato-emergenza-3152694/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 20:29

Spanish flu, which no one had immunity to, didn't slow down over the summer.

Coronavirus is spreading in places which are warm.

No reason to think it will slow down due to the weather. Only Donald Trump thinks it will.

justchecking1 · 22/02/2020 20:30

Just FYI @amd your numbers are way out there.

In your example of 100,000 people if 15% needed hospital care that would be 15,000 people, not 150.

The little market town you talk about is likely to have around 500 beds to cope with them all....

PinkGinAndTacos · 22/02/2020 20:44

Its definitely ramping up!

GorkyMcPorky · 22/02/2020 20:51

I live in a small market town, population substantially fewer than 10k. There are 20 beds in our hospital and no A&E.

RedToothBrush · 22/02/2020 21:08

Kai Kupferschmidt @kakape
For me and for everyone I know who has been following #covid19, the last few days have felt like a profound shift in the epidemic. We are clearly entering a new phase. And since I've had some time to digest recent news, here is a short thread about that „window of opportunity“

Why do I believe that? First in general: there is the way the virus has spread on the #Princessdiamond, in hospitals, in prisons. #SARSCoV2 is very infectious, patients seem to spread it for a long time and cases are hard to detect. It is simply very hard to contain such a virus.

Iran: Until three days ago, Iran had not reported a single #COVID19 case. Now we are at 28 cases, incl. 5 deaths. The number of deaths and also the cases of travellers from Iran testing positive suggests this is the tip of an iceberg. We will soon see how large that iceberg is.

South Korea: The country has now confirmed 433 #COVID19 cases. Most of these are related to a hospital outbreak and to meetings of a religious group. The sheer number is going to make it hard to contain this. Are we looking at a second China? Hopefully not, but it’s possible.

Singapore with its gold-standard surveillance, has at least 7 #COVID19 cases that have not been traced to a known transmission chain. Japan has a similar problem. Italy has local transmission incl. 2 deaths, which suggests those numbers will go up significantly.

And these are just the things we know. We can only guess what we don’t know. This MRC analysis suggests that 2/3 of all #COVID19 cases exported from China have been missed t.co/HXYOVYiK1o

From the summary: "we estimated that about two thirds of COVID-19 cases exported from mainland China have remained undetected worldwide, potentially resulting in multiple chains of as yet undetected human-to-human transmission outside mainland China"

None of this is a shock. Most researchers always expected it would get to this point. The question is: What happens now? I’m not a public health expert, I’m not an epidemiologist. I’m a journalist. That means I think a lot about communication and that has to enter a new phase too

The massive efforts in China have bought us time. But we should be using that time to prepare and that includes preparing the world by communicating what is happening, what is likely to happen and what the response might look like. That is the “window of opportunity” we have now.

Helen Branswell @helenbranswell

  1. This thread should be read as a companion to *@kakape*'s terrific analysis of where things stand with the #COVID19 outbreak. If you aren't following Kai, you aren't following coronavirus news properly. Here's his very insightful thread. Next, my thoughts. [RTB ~ as posted above]
  1. As *@kakape* wrote, *@WHO*'s strategy — building on China's strategy — has been to strive to drive #COVID19 out of humans. Stop its spread in China, tamp out all the sparks that flew out from China, consign this virus to the history books with its close cousin, SARS.
  1. This strategy has roots in the 2000s, when 1) SARS was stopped & 2) mathematical models said a threatening H5N1 bird flu pandemic could be snuffed out at source with antiviral drugs & quarantine, etc. I never believed those models but thankfully, H5N1 didn't take off.
  1. As the number of #COVID19 cases has far surpassed the SARS total, as it has become v/ clear the new virus transmits with far greater ease than its cousin, the possibility that this one could be contained/eliminated has seemed more & more remote.
  1. Still, very seasoned infectious diseases & public health experts — people I've learned tons from over the years —have as recently as Thursday-Friday told me they thought #COVID19 could be stopped. I don't know if they believe it. I'm certain they think the world has to try.
  1. I very much hope they are right. But:
The #COVID19 containment strategy rests both on China being able to put out the forest fire AND every country hit by sparks — exported cases — also being able to stamp out those sparks.
  1. Other countries have to be able to identify incoming #COVID19 cases, isolate them, monitor contacts, isolate the ones who get sick. Stop the virus from spreading locally. Stopping the virus in China, if it can be done, isn't enough. That's especially evident this weekend.
  1. Models have already told us this in theory but the #COVID19 outbreaks in Iran & Italy show graphically that we haven't seen all the sparks that have flown off the conflagration in China. We don't know how far this virus has spread or what will be the next Italy, Iran.
  1. Iran exported a case before it knew #COVID19 was in Iran. An infected Cdn traveler was home for days before Iran declared its first cases. But for the fact that an ER doc decided to test a woman who had traveled, but not to China, the Cdn traveler wouldn't have hit the radar.
  1. On Friday morning, Italy had 0 diagnosed #COVID19 cases. Today it has at least 32 & 2 deaths. Which means it has had cases for a while. Which means there are more.

  2. All this to say that regardless of whether China can stop #COVID19 within its borders — a very tall order, despite its extraordinary efforts — there are new fronts in this battle. A few of them have hit our radar in the past few days. They surely aren't the only ones.

  3. This map is a bit misleading because we don't know if the Iranian outbreak was set off by someone who had been to China. Sounds like the Italian one, yes. But it gives you a sense of how much #Covid19 is skipping around.

  4. At some point, public health officials at @WHO & elsewhere will likely stop talking about containment & start talking about "mitigation:" What can be done to lessen the blow, how do we take care of our families, our communities?
    It's important to be thinking of this now.

  5. A last thought: Several scientists I have spoken to recently, people who know how advanced Chinese scientific capacity is, have told me they think China must by now have done studies to estimate the percentage of mild #COVID19 cases that have missed detection.

  6. That is a critical piece of information & could change our view of #COVID19 substantially. It's not a nice disease, but it's probably not as bad as it currently looks.

  7. Think of an iceberg. With #COVID19, it's easy to see the deaths/serious cases. But people with mild illness don't go to hospital/don't get tested. Studies have to be done to find them. We need a clearer picture. If the data exist, share. If they don't, generate them.

to be worried about coronavirus part 3
KoalasandRabbit · 22/02/2020 21:11

David and Sally Abel both had flu and pneumonia vaccines and both have coronavirus with pneumonia so don't think they stop it.

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