...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

Can I just say too, that a mental health CRISIS, can range from being psychotic, to being depressed to being actively suicidal. When you're actively suicidal, you need to be calling 999.
Would you see a thread on here, with a poster saying my husband has collapsed on the floor, is clutching his chest and appears to be struggling to breathe, being told to call the Samaritans? No you wouldn't.

So why should a similarly fatal circumstance (being actively suicidal) NOT be signposted to emergency services i.e. 111 or 999?

I have phoned Samaritans in acute crisis and got told to stop crying.
If someone else hadn't happened to phone straight after and allowed me to cry I wouldn't be here. So my experience of them as a service user is that they were very very unhelpful - being told off for crying was not what I needed.

The Samaritans don't advise as in saying things like LTB etc but they do explore possibilities with you e.g. "Have you considered talking to xx ? ""or " What do you think would happen if you did Y?". They also have a big book of other agencies they can signpost to next to them, but they don't rush to do that until they have listened properly as it can feel like fobbing people off. Constructive feedback is helpful and I think there is an office admin email address for anyone wishing to offer feedback. Saying " they are shit" isn't very constructive. emails start to be answered by a new person when someone goes off duty and I think that can affect continuity. Live chat might be better. That type of feedback is helpful. I agree with the person who pointed out that we have voted in a government which is very happy to signpost to voluntary services and run public services on the cheap. Voluntary services should not be expected to plug gaps.

They are not really a mental health service, they are a valued listening confidential service fir those who are desperate at that moment. They are there when no one else is but it's not ongoing help it's crisis help. They can release a pressure valve of overwhelm.

Also, someone I know who has quite severe mental health problems themselves is a volunteer. They are doing it entirely to make themselves feel better, and to show everyone what a good person they are, not to help anyone else.

The fact that this person got past their gatekeeping and completed the training, such as it is, is very concerning, and another reason why I would never contact them again. My pain is not there to make someone else feel good.

Yes but if you are desperate you need to feel a connection, not vast swathes of silence. You also don't need to feel hurried up. The time limit thing is quite bad imo.

Samaritans is meant to be a listening service and they really can't offer advice. Sometimes just having someone to listen at 3 o'clock in the morning can be a real help but I agree that sometimes stronger action needed. It is very unfortunate that some posters experiences have not been good. A friend of mine had a similar bad experience and later committed suicide. I don't know whether his call could have been handled better but a relative who had volunteered with the Samaritans for many years was certainly very unimpressed with the way his call was handled. Unfortunately not all volunteers are very good at listening and they have to get rid of volunteers every now and then. I hope anyone who has had a bad experience isn't put off calling again as most volunteers are very good.

If you look at the language used by the government actually. It's a crisis if it relates to your mental health, but it's an emergency if it relates to your physical health.

A mental health crisis, can be an emergency.

Sorry that was in response to @kingofkings

Yes but if you are desperate you need to feel a connection, not vast swathes of silence. You also don't need to feel hurried up. The time limit thing is quite bad imo.

They shouldn't do that. Listening and not offering advice doesn't mean silence.

We've declared a climate change emergency.

Why haven't we declared a mental health emergency?

woodchuck, unfortunately they don't even say anything at all when you're talking. So what's the point of them?

There isn't a time limit on the phone calls, if you start talking to someone they will stay with you as long as you need. Live chat would be the same. The samaritans are there day and night as a confidential listening service , they should not be expected to replace good mental health services.

Why haven't we declared a mental health emergency?

Because it can't really be dealt with without massive changes to the structure of society. And there's nothing in place to deal with it.

Catherine - that's the point of declaring it an emergency surely? So that resources can be diverted to mental health services?

There isn't a time limit on the phone calls.

Sorry I have been told there is. And have had my calls stopped. Not a one off. It seems to be around the 20 minute mark. I was shocked the first time it happened.

Because it can't really be dealt with without massive changes to the structure of society. And there's nothing in place to deal with it.

And it costs a lot and people don't want to pay.

woodchuck, unfortunately they don't even say anything at all when you're talking. So what's the point of them?

I'm sorry that has been your experience. It doesn't sound very helpful to say absolutely nothing and I don't think that is what they are meant to be doing. They can't make decisions but that doesn't mean they are meant to sit there without saying a word.

I've never experienced a time limit.

I even had one lovely woman offer to call me back when I said I had to go and attend to my child. She called me back after he was in bed.

What I have struggled with is when they've obviously been busy and you're on hold for AGES. That makes me feel desperate for myself and sad that so many other people are trying to get through.

There certainly isn’t a 20 minute time limit on calls. Not do we ‘go silent’ on people - we try to let the caller do most of the talking without us interrupting, but we would try to interact as much as needed. I’m surprised and concerned by the experiences some people have had.

I am sorry that happened Catherine it isn't the policy.

redcarbluecar Thank you for actually hearing what we're saying. I'm not the only one saying that this has been my experience. So it's good that someone is actually taking this on board.

I am also concerned to read some of this redcarbluecar. I was told that I should never stop the call, it should always be the caller that ends the conversation. I have heard people on a call for 3 hours. The only calls that may be cut short are sex calls, and only when it is clear that it isn't someone looking for help with a genuine problem.

There's advice which I've picked up for myself over the years. I am awful for listening to sad songs when I'm sad. Of course, that just opens the floodgates and I feel worse.
I now deliberately force myself to go on youtube and search for comedians and FORCE myself to watch something. I'll also force myself to listen to the Venga Bus or something stupid. Anything but maudlin music.
I also have to avoid places like unfortunately MN (particularly AIBU). People don't know that you are not in a position of health to get a metaphorical kick online. I don't use SM apart from FB and my friends are limited there.
I avoid the news and heavy debates.
Sometimes I just go and lie down and play Candy Crush until I fall asleep.
That's all fine and Dandy when I'm not actively suicidal. That's a different beast altogether and the advice should be to call 999. I can't reiterate that enough.

What I do recognise is that the training may be encouraging some volunteers to be too quiet. The focus is on listening, not interupting, not rushing to fill silence etc but that doesn't mean not to engage in a human way. That I will be feeding back to the trainers in my branch.