...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

IMO It's a bit like the climate emergency. It needs changes to the way we behave and the way society is structured. It's not about 'being kind' it's things we are actively getting rid of like council services, meals on wheels, community centres, youth hostels, short stay drop off creches, subsidised holiday camps, things that were there in the 80s but are in short supply/non existent now.

I remember my mother being able to literally drop my sister off at the drop off creche while we got the shopping. I think it was max 2 hours. You literally turned up and dropped your child off. In the summer we went to youth hostel, it was something like 50p per child. We went to trips to hampton court palace and the zoo for a couple of quid. Gave my (miserable) mum a break. Kept her able to keep being a mum.

Those services are gone. Thinking of my mother now she would likely be on universal credit with no affordable childcare and likely sanctioned every other month. We'd be down the food bank. Or in care.

It's also the privatisation of services with a focus on profits not neccessarily sevice. Not being able to talk to someone directly and quickly on the phone to deal with bills and life admin etc, the increasing use of remote technologies to get information: Need to learn more about how to get help with your heating? Just go to www.heating.gov.uk

Not having a stable G.P. who you see all the time and knows you, and who you can quickly get an appointment with.

Emphasis on people making a monetary contribution to society in order to have 'worth' The increasing volitility of relationships and rising divorce etc etc. Not knowing neighbours. The need to have material status. The increasing inability to afford a home. Wages not meeting basic needs. Families increasingly moving around.

There are just so many things.

"That's all fine and Dandy when I'm not actively suicidal. That's a different beast altogether and the advice should be to call 999. I can't reiterate that enough."

What actually happens when you call 999 when actively suicidal?

I think I have been very fortunate then. I have never experienced silence when calling and never been given a time limit either. I have always been met with warmth, kindness and compassion. I have felt that the person has really listened to me and not judged what I had to say. I have phoned on numerous occasions and this has been my experience each time. I have also visited their drop in on two occasions and was met with the warm, kind response I outlined above. I'm sad that this has not been the experience of many PPs because it really has made all the difference to me and kept me going when all i could see at that point was the end.
I have found the crisis team helpful too and I am aware that is not everyone's experience though too.

ITV covering anxiety and depression NOW.

CatherineofAragon you are completely right, support services have been decimated. That sadly is what the electorate have voted for.

I was told that I should never stop the call, it should always be the caller that ends the conversation. I have heard people on a call for 3 hours.

@Paintedmaypole can you confirm that this is official policy countrywide?

If not I actually feel worse thinking they have deliberately terminated my calls out of choice. I have been told 'I have to go now' the 2nd time.

What actually happens when you call 999 when actively suicidal?

They ask what service you need - Police, Fire, Ambulance.
The first time I called I didn't know what I needed, so I just said, I don't know - I'm about to kill myself.
They said ok, Police.
The Police people come on the phone and ask for your address.
They come out within 10 minutes.

Alternative is you ask for Ambulance, they'll ask if you have an active plan in place, if you say that you have, they say, ok, we're sending an ambulance now. They offer to stay on the line until the ambulance gets there. I've never opted for that because as I said, I'm actively suicidal, and within 10 minutes, you'll have police knocking at your door. They sit with you until the ambulance arrives. Depending on how you are when the police are there, they feed back into whether you're ok or not. If you're still talking about suicide, they will 'force' you to go in the ambulance and the police remain with you as it's a police decision. They can't leave you until you've been seen and discharged by the mental health team.

If however, while they're with you, you 'cheer up' so to speak, which happens mostly, then they let the ambulance assess you - ambulance will try to persuade you to go, but you do have a choice.

Mindline is also a good source of support imo
www.mindinsomerset.org.uk/our-services/adult-one-to-one-support/mindline/
You can call for up to 15 mins if you are outside of Somerset or up to 30 mins if you are in Somerset so there is a time limit but at least you would know that from the start of the call.
Some people call whilst in crisis and others call to have a chat perhaps to reduce social isolation.
I have not personally used the crisis text line SHOUT but that may also be worth as try.
They are an emotional support line and will listen.

As in Mindline are an emotional support line (my message got a bit jumbled there ....)

I've never been sectioned after calling 999. I have been sectioned on other occasions however when someone else called them.
99% of the time, I'm fine after a bit of human interaction. 1% of the time, they see you're still crying and expressing suicidal thoughts, so they take an executive decision so to speak to take you to A&E whether you like it or not. They sit with you in A&E until you've been seen by the Mental Health Team.

Police have saved my life more than once and I can't be more grateful to them.

I can only say that that is what I was told in training at my local branch, the overall policy I don't know but I don't think your call should have been terminated. I am sorry that happened.

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate, you may have had a volunteer whose shift had ended, but that’s not very good practice really and isn’t encouraged- certainly not after 20
mins. Sorry to hear it happened more than once too. As for nationwide policy, we are trained to manage the endings of calls and a 3 hour one would be unusual, but it does happen and we’d (hopefully!) be there for as long as that person needed us.

The Samaritans are not perfect but I for one am incredibly grateful that they exist. Thank you to all the wonderful human beings who give up their spare time to support others who are struggling. Thank you to the Samaritans who occasionally as someone else has mentioned go 'rogue' - I have felt a connection, validated, cared for by these Samaritans, they are the ones who have had a huge impact on my life, the reason I am still here, the others who listen have also been of great help but sometimes more is needed. For people like me who are isolated, who the NHS, society, friends & family have neglected, the Samaritans can be our last resort, for others saying see the GP etc, what if we already did all those things but were ignored & failed by them all? More needs to be done with regards to mental health but it won't, theres still too much ignorance & stigma, people will just continue to virtue signal & go about their lives.

Sometimes the Samaritans are simply there as company during a persons last moments. That can be invaluable to someone.

That said, yes I think there are more suitable places that people could be referred to.

I used their email service once and never got a reply

I'm usually apologetic to them and apologise for wasting their time but they're really lovely in making it clear to you that your life is as valuable of a life to save as everyone else's.

We should have stages of intervention recommended.

Samaritans - yes - for some people it works.
111 - when you're really worried
999 - when you're at that emergency point. Please don't think it's not an emergency.

Sorry, there have been replies in the meantime, the 'them' I'm referring to are the ambulance service and the police (my angels).

I agree with you OP, I have read most of the thread. I think the Samaritans are wonderful selfless people. However their services weren’t intended to be used as people are thinking.

As many of you have said, it’s a listening service which can really help some people. However it’s now just a platitude people post about to make themselves feel great, or something the government uses to excuse the sorry state of our MH services.

My ex has debilitating depression and I cannot tell you how frustrated I felt for him when he was trying to access counselling. Just kept getting prescribed pills which sometimes made him worse. It’s embarrassing that the U.K. has fuck all help for those in need.

I agree that if a person in crisis has seen everyone posting about calling the Samaritans, then decides to call them and finds them not helpful, then what are they left with? That was their last option

As for nationwide policy, we are trained to manage the endings of calls and a 3 hour one would be unusual, but it does happen and we’d (hopefully!) be there for as long as that person needed us. @redcarbluecar that is both reassuring and a bit upsetting in view of my experience. I'm glad that a time limit is not official policy though.

Sometimes the Samaritans are simply there as company during a persons last moments. That can be invaluable to someone.

A very valid point.

Often by the time people are at that stage, them reaching out isn’t going to happen

I can only speak of my ten years as a Samaritan and yes that has happened a lot. Of course, there are those who wouldn't dream of reaching out at that stage too.

I think they could do something like saying we don't offer advice but we can signpost you to places that do if you would like
Just to correct this misconception, Samaritans do this all the time. They signpost to different organisations a lot.

I am so disappointed to hear of the bad experiences some people have had when calling Samaritans. It's nothing like I have known being one... we've never ended calls after 20 minutes unless it's a sex call or they are just chatting for something to do. Also I just don't get the silence bit, I am not disputing it happens but it's not something I have known, because personally I always want to ask questions and find out if there is anything underlying the problems I'm being told about.

What I think I want to reiterate... in life you don't like everyone you meet. This is true of Samaritans. You might not like how the call is going, the tone of voice, the fact it's a male Samaritan, the way they talk etc. If the call is not going right, and you are missing the connection with a warm kind person, ring off and ring again. There are people on here I wish I had taken their call to be honest.

What has happened in the past is I've called 999 and asked for an ambulance (I won't say whether I may or may not be in the process of suicide at that point). I then sit down ready for a long wait, listening to my sad songs. Next thing you've police banging on your door.

Conversation has gone like this:

Police: Hooha - you called us?
Me: I most certainly did not!
Police: Well we've been told to come out here - can we come in?
Me: Yes, or you'll wake the dead with your knocking!
Police: Come in and ramble about the place (one of them).
Me: Argues with them about nosing about my house
Police: We're just checking to make sure you're safe
Me: Turns up I FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW WON on youtube
Police: Start to talk to me
Me: Tell them that I don't like them. Usually get onto the government. I've had them call the OOH team on one occasion on my behalf (when they had hung up on me) and they hung up on the police officer - I've never seen someone so annoyed. He was furious and incredulous. (He said he was going to put a report in whatever that means).
Me: Eventually warm to them and invite them to sit down.
Police: Sometimes stay standing (usually one stationed beside the door). Sometimes one will sit down
Me: Apologise for feeling suicidal
Police: We'd rather be here with you than being stabbed honestly
Me: Ok - you're not so bad - what do you think of this song?
Police: Normal discussion ensues
Me: Either cheer up or it's clear that I need help

Oh - and I usually try asking them whether they've a warrant!! PMSL. I'm sure they go away from me and laugh out loud with this tiny little terrier they meet. Demanding a warrant (I've seen it on police programmes).

@mehooha

Who would have thought the police were so good?

"I used their email service once and never got a reply"

That's terrible. Why do they have an email service if they are going to ignore emails?

I've also tried telling them that no, it certainly wasn't me - it must have been someone else and that they've the wrong address.

They just say well can we come in for a minute anyway?

Then they charm you. I'm a sucker for a man in uniform. I'm being frivolous, but they have saved my life. A few times.