...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

You'd get more response ranting to Alexa

- but I agree

I honestly think that the people who recommend them have never ever had to call them.

Yes, yes & yes

I’ve rang them before. I think it’s an important service but I felt worse after I called. I knew the person on the other end of the phone didn’t really care about me, they didn’t know me. I was still alone. When I put the phone down I was still in the same place. I think more money needs to be pumped into NHS mental health services. Counselling waits are ridiculous- when I’ve tried to access one to one sessions for severe health anxiety last year i was told the wait was 12-18 months. That’s far too long to someone seriously struggling.

the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis

No but as you allude to, it makes the people posting it feel all warm and fuzzy for taking part in a temporary charade to show what a Fantastic Person™ they are on social media.

Give it a week and they'll forget all about their "door always being open and the kettle always on", just like how they didn't bother with such lipservice platitudes before a famous woman died.

Here (MN) would be useful if MN allowed it, but you're not allowed post if you're suicidal (or to say you're suicidal). Your thread will be removed and you'll be directed to the samaritans! Lol.

I also think it’s a bit naff that so many famous people are doing the whole “holding my family much tighter tonight - here’s the Samaritans number if you need it”. Well intentioned maybe but it’s a bit like saying “I have my lovely family who adore me but if you don’t have anyone here you go...!”

Great... start a thread bashing the Samaritans, a service that is run by volunteers, many of whom get up at 1am drive to their Centre and stay up all night on the telephones talking to people who are struggling.

Of course there are limitations, the volunteers aren't trained counsellors or psychiatrists. They are there to listen, not give advice but often they can explore all the options with a caller which leads to that person finding their own path out of the darkness.

I agree OP that the burden is pushed onto Samaritans because of cuts in MH Services, but they do help many many people. It's very sad and very unfair for people to to call them useless. I was one for 10 years and was told many a time that being there and listening and the kindness of a 'stranger' was something they would remember forever. You just don't hear from these people who they have helped.

Great... start a thread bashing the Samaritans, a service that is run by volunteers,

That is not what the OP is doing, if you bothered to read the actual thread.

@waggydog21 I think you did have a bit of a rogue one there. Samaritans wouldn’t usually offer advice, solutions or try to get you to see someone else’s point of view n the way you describe. I suppose the service just can’t be completely consistent. I’m glad your previous experiences were better.

@Mehooha I'm sorry you had that experience with the Samaritans. Maybe the service has changed since I volunteered but that s not how I would have handled a call. No, they do not offer advice, but I would certainly have asked questions to help the caller work out what they were going through, and engaged in two way conversation. I'm sorry you didn't find it useful. I hope that the people I spoke to did.

I am sorry that you didn't find it helpful but I am worried your negativity will be putting off other people in crisis who would benefit

This. ^^

That is not what the OP is doing, if you bothered to read the actual thread

And perhaps you need to read the negativity and bashing that has come out of the thread

@redcarbluecar luckily I was familiar enough with the service to recognise he was out of line and I ended the call. Thankfully I was with it enough not to follow the advice as my ex boyfriend was actually parked outside my house at the time! I was reluctant about getting the police involved as he was really young and I didn’t want to “ruin his life” and needed to talk it through with someone. I know the Samaritans help a lot of people but in this case it was not helpful lol

Rousette, if you're not willing to listen to feedback from people who have actually used them in crisis and who have found them useless, then that's not ideal is it? They're not above criticism. I recognise that the intention is good, but they're really not fit for the intended purpose or any purpose as far as my experience goes.

You have to be able to listen to criticism when things are failing somewhere along the line.

I have called them and they were a life line. I was suicidal. Im concerned your thread will stop others calling them when they are in a crisis.
Nothing works for everyone.

I tried to seek help from them via email a few years ago and was told to think about things and email back in a few days if necessary. There was no help, support, advice or understanding at all.

At 19 I was refused the chance to be a Samaritan as I had mentioned a bad experience I had had as a teenager. Surely the type of person who they needed.

You are there to listen, not advise or make suggestions according to the training back then.

I don’t want to bash the service and I appreciate all the volunteers, but sometimes when you have a negative experience with a service like this you feel alone and like it’s your fault. Seeing that it doesn’t work for everyone can be something of a comfort.

I was a Samaritan.

I ultimately left because I was frustrated about the way in which the service operates. It's incredibly incredibly rigid, you are absolutely not allowed to give advice and I was pulled up a couple of times for saying things like 'that sounds really upsetting' or 'that must have been really hard' or because it's presuming things about how the caller feels. I literally felt like I was just repeating 'and how did that make you feel?' or 'and do you want to talk more about that?' over and over again. Callers often want advice or empathy at the very least and (certainly at my branch) I felt you couldn't even offer the latter.

You couldn't advise or say anything that suggested anything about your own experiences, which is clearly sensible to a degree but someone's people want to hear 'I've been where you are and I understand' or even 'I can imagine where you are and I understand'.

There are good reasons for some of this obviously, but as a listener it makes the conversation incredibly stilted because most callers want a 'conversation' rather than just to scream into their pillow. I felt like I couldn't offer real support to people in the end and decided it wasn't for me.

I also struggled with the 'self determination' ethos of Samaritans. You are not supposed to try and talk someone out of suicide or intervene in any way, even if they are actively committing suicide on the call, which happened to a colleague of mine while I was there. It's incredibly hard to know that maybe if you could have got an ambulance to someone they might have had another chance.

There are good reasons for all of these practices obviously and there is certainly a place for the service. I'm sure they help lots of people. But personally I wouldn't bother calling them if I was in distress.

Say you're at home with your teenage son or your DH and they're in crisis but they're refusing to talk to you or you're irritating them by your mere presence.
Would you in all reality, hand them the number for the Samaritans or would you call 111?

waggydog21 What I have said to callers is... if the call is not going how you would've liked, if the Samaritan you are talking to just isn't right, the connection isn't there etc... just put the phone down, leave it 5 minutes and try again. Samaritans are only human, different characters, different tone of voice etc. It's worth trying that.

I’m not reading this thread as bashing the Samaritans. The point about the Samaritans is that people signpost to them without really realising it’s not a “fix”.

I feel similar frustration when people spout crap about “I’d rather sit listening to your problems now than sit listening to your eulogy”. Especially when it comes from people who have a track record of being shit.

And as for “Seek help”. Most people say it, and pat themselves on the back for being so helpful; when in actual fact “Seeking help” leads to sitting on an ever increasing waiting list because of shit funding.

We should not be in a position as a society where paramedics and police officers are continually going out to people with mental health crises (I should stress this is NOT the fault of the person in crisis, this is 100% down to the lack of any other service to turn to).

My workplace has been winding me up recently with a very high profile campaign about mental health and how much they “care”. Well, not enough to actually resource effectively to reduce stress on their employees; and they always manage out anyone with serious mental health issues; but they say they care, and that’s the important thing, right?

Mehooha It didn't work for you and I'm sorry to hear that. However, it does work for others. And I'd repeat what I said above about trying another time.

There are very many people in crisis that the service has worked for

Not a very helpful post in todays climate really.
Ringing the Samaritans isn't going to wave a magic wand and make you feel better and fix everything obviously.
However if you are feeling in a bad way and need to talk to someone isn't it actually great that we have a service ran by people who care so much they help for free.

I would never bash a service like this for fear of putting some one who's actively suicidal off contacting them.

Thousands of people are alive today because they reached out and spoke to the Samaritans. Remember that.

I honestly think that the people who recommend them have never ever had to call them.

Completely true

mistermagpie

Your experience of being on the other end is precisely my experience of being a caller.

I think it's NZ that has a texting service. So you text and someone texts back. I don't know. I know that a listening service has not been useful for me and that if I hadn't called 999 on some occasions I wouldn't be here to tell the tale. I think it's dangerous advice giving them as the only lifeline you've got and when you find them wanting, you're left with absolutely nowhere to turn.