...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

It is a bit ironic that they don't offer any advice at all. I remember reading it was set up after the founder learned of a young girl who committed suicide after starting her period and not knowing what it was she thought she had some terrible disease. In that case some specific advice would have really helped.

I think they could do something like saying we don't offer advice but we can signpost you to places that do if you would like.

Not being able to say, 'that sounds very hard for you' as a previous PP was told not to do when volunteering, seems ridiculous to me.

We do say things like that - I'm not sure why the PP felt that she'd been stopped from doing so; perhaps there was some kind of miscommunication within her branch. We wouldn't say 'that must be hard for you' - the difference is subtle but the latter can convey an unhelpful assumption. I am really sorry to hear that people have experienced Samaritans being overly silent and not interacting/talking when this would have been helpful. That isn't our aim, or part of the training, at all. I will certainly find a way to feed this back.

I think they could do something like saying we don't offer advice but we can signpost you to places that do if you would like

We do say that. We may not signpost as a first recourse, but would do so if it became clear that all a caller wanted was advice and we had the number of an organisation that might help.

Exactly Paintedmaypole. It's that middle ground. As Mehooha says, even idle chitchat is better than nothing as it's often about the human connection. If people are actually saying, hello, are you still there? You don't seem to be listening? As I have actually done, and others have also reported on this thread, then the human connection is missing in my view.

Thanks for taking this on board

The trite social media stuff is really irritating me having grown up with a parent with severe mental illness. Actually no, being kinder would have done fuck all. It is the medication and extensive intervention from the psych team that keeps my mother out of hospital. You wouldn’t tell people to be kind to someone with a physical illness. You’d get them the right medical support.

That's it in a nutshell, and the right social support. But all this is deemed to cost too much and those who need it as seen as weak and having merited their condition themselves to some extent so it won't be forthcoming.

I've been very fortunate in that I've never needed the Samaritans. I've been suicidal, many times, but I have an excellent priest who has given me calm, non-judgmental support and literally saved my life. So I totally understand that for people with nobody to reach out to, thee Samaritans can be vital. I also think it's worth pointing out that mental illness isn't the only reason for suicide. I wasn't ill, I just didn't know how to live after a truly terrible loss.

I don't think the problem here is the Samaritans. They can only do so much, and their training cannot begin to cover every problem for every person in crisis. I see the problem as being people who use the Samaritans as a way to brush off people in crisis, while also appearing to be helpful and supportive. As if the were saying "Look at me, see how Helpful and Supportive I am" while also managing to pass the "problem" on to someone else.

Yes, idle chit chat is what the police are brilliant at.

The last time they were prowling around my flat, checking for anything that might indicate I was about to do something. Then they set upon my medication on the table (hadn't touched anything). We had lots of banter me and the police officer, because he kept saying, we don't know if she has taken anything etc. to the ambulance I think? He was on the phone anyway. I was joking 'you're not going to make detective at this rate are you - how many are in the box? And how many does it say should be in the box?'. He took the banter with good humour. By the time the ambulance arrived, I was best buddies with the police officers. Yes, it's wasting police time (or saving my life), but it saved other resources too and probably saved my life. People should be aware that the emergency services are also there for you when you feel yourself slipping into that absolute intent.

I have called Samaritans many, many times and it works very well for me.
They just listen. Listen to me say the story I've told loads of times - one that doesn't have solutions. The story I just need to get out of my system. They calm me down at times when I can't use my other coping strategies because I have my young son with me at home.
They are anonymous - I like that. They don't judge. They are there 24hrs a day.

I guess for me, just getting things off my chest and having a good cry helps me. When I am very low I retreat into myself and distance myself from those who care for me. It's just the way I am.

There is no way I would call on a friend when I am in the state I have been when I've called the Samaritans. That's just the way I am.

It doesn't change anything, but enables me to carry on - maybe to the next professional MH appt, or till bed tie or whatever.

Thank you Samaritans.

You are right... talking to Alexa would have been far more comforting/distracting.

As an aside, Alexa, Google home etc have been trained to react to certain triggers like suicidal intent and offer relevant suggestions in response. I can't vouch for the quality of the responses though.

Yanbu they're shite. I had an ongoing email conversation with them once and they kept getting my name wrong!

Of course it's not, but it's meant for someone in crisis, who sadly probably wouldn't have let on to any family or friends that they are struggling to cope. The preferred help is recognising you are struggling before it overtakes your life, and seeing a GP; or for family or friends to be aware you are finding things hard and call a crisis team to try and get you the help you need if you are contemplating suicide. If you are looking over the edge, all alone, phoning an anon service is a lot less daunting than phoning 999 or an NHS crisis team. Mental health is complex, everyone is different, the support in this country at the moment is not sufficient for demand in any way, shape or form- but the Samaritans imo do offer an important service. Hopefully having someone listen is enough for some to be pulled back and seek some help when they feel able to.

Can I just reiterate for anyone reading who may be at the brink, please call 999. Even call 111 (I've called and said that I didn't want to give my address as I didn't want an ambulance. I've even said that I lived in Liverpool once or twice as I find them very friendly ). By the time they've gone through their annoying questions, the impulse can have passed. My advice is probably irritating to some and time wasting to others. But I'm still alive despite as some others have said, having an active plan in place and being about to do it - won't go into details. Just the police uniform makes me feel safe. I know this isn't the answer either, and I do try my very best to utilise any service available to me to try to stop myself feeling suicidal, but when all else has failed, please don't feel afraid to call 999.

It would need to be appropriately funded. There's an OOH MH crisis number, but they work 9-5 and are just on the phone. In severe crisis they'll tell you to ring 999 anyway.

I don't know if a real live MH service exists anywhere in the world. But we could be the first to introduce it!

There is - if you’re under the Crisis Team (which is a halfway house between inpatient treatment and just be under the care of your GP + psychiatry).

There you have daily visits at home and emergency contact 24/7 numbers

Aridane - I have been under the crisis team, but they don't actually come out to you out of hours. And I find them very rude at times. Their advice can be quite brutal - go to sleep etc.

I have never needed to be visited by the Crisis team but I recall a call to them one evening about 10pm, where they kept me on the phone for over an hour and made sure I was safe. He was lovely.

Please please be careful what you are posting. If you don't think the Samaritans is the answer please put down what you think I is, so the desperate person reading this has an alternative and is not just shut down

The alternatives are fairly obvious. Depending on the level of crisis, it’s:

GP

111

A&E

999

Whilst no charity is beyond reproach I think if it is delivered in too negative a way ("they are shit") it isn't very valuable and could put off potential volunteers, leading to an even worse service.

The issue isn't the Samaritans - who do the best they can in difficult circumstances, including operating in a world where social media rules an organisations image and litigation increases all the time. The flip side of fearing being blamed for doing the wrong thing is you end up restricting your service to only the very safest options. You take no risks.

The issue is the absolute lack of proper, government sponsored, paid through taxes mental health services available. And like pp have said - we've had several years of the public voting to cut public spending, through the MPs they elect, which sends a very clear message that we would rather have lower taxes than better services. Plus we STILL are not taking mental well-being seriously enough. People still push themselves to breaking point and-or businesses still push employees beyond reason and-or the government still adds greater pressure on its citizens.

Oh and we are still not that nice or supportive to each other - in real life or online.

(and have had greater experiences with GP and, to my surprise at rock bottom, with A&E

I didn't know they are just a listening service. Are they advertised as that?
I thought they had trained volunteers giving out good advice.

If we even had a nation wide phone service manned by psychiatric nurses (as the crisis team is - but you need to be referred), it would be useful. It would need a lot of money, but what is the alternative? People dying? Wasting ambulance/police time/A&E time/trolleys? I wish they would do a cost/benefit analysis. Suicide doesn't affect just the victim. It has a ripple effect in terms of support needed for family and friends. And funding for therapy therapy therapy therapy. Please!

Keep seeing all these ads on the tv to call Samaritans or social media posts. I feel for the poor people working there , who’s aren’t even getting paid. What are they able to do? I just seems like the easy option to say to someone. Oh just phone the Samaritans, they’ll help you. I beg people don’t even know that it’s a listening service.

*bet

When I was young The Samaritans had a befriending service which was wonderful. My Samaritan friend and I would go to the Royal Festival Hall to watch ballet or just go and have lunch or coffee and a chat (I lived in central London). I also spent many evenings and weekends at Samaritans headquarters in the crypt in St Stephens Walbrook. I could just go along and make myself a coffee there and just have a bit of company or even just "sit". But it was a safe place to be. I am talking about the early 1970s. The Samaritans in those days was invaluable. A true lifeline.
Unfortunately, I have phoned them when in a crisis more recently and my experience was very different and I agree with the poster who said you'd get more response from Alexa. This is no doubt due to the restrictions put on the volunteers so that they are so unresponsive to what you say that you wonder if they have put down the phone and wandered off. It becomes embarrassing to talk to them because you feel as though you are just talking "at" the person, because they can''t express thoughts, empathy or sympathy.
When you are 'getting nothing back' you feel awkward as we are not used to that when talking to someone. I don't know what the answer is, as I suppose I do understand why the volunteers have these rules, but I think I'm not alone in feeling even worse after phoning.

I have not read the full thread yet.

My experience with the Samaritans is that they are not as good as they used to be. Some sort of new regulations must have been brought in because I rang them after an awful break up many years ago and the lady - I remember her name was Evelyn - was absolutely brilliant. Suggested practical things I could do, places I could go, was very judgmental of my ex's behaviour and truly bolstered me. She sounded very efficient and practical. I love her where ever she is in the world. She was wonderful.

Unfortunately fast forward 10 years and my subsequent experience has been quite poor. In fact one call left me feeling worse than when I initiated the call because she suddenly declared that 'If I felt better' she 'had to move on' then said 'ok bye' and put down the phone and I hadn't even finished talking. I felt very dismissed. It seems they now have a time limit for the call and just listen without even making consoling gestures. I doubt I will ever use them again.

I think 'Call the Samaritans' must be something put up by people who never use them. I see them after programs dealing with sexual abuse etc and they are not good for that imo.

I thought they had trained volunteers giving out good advice

Samaritans training (which is more intensive than some people expect) is entirely focused on listening. We aren't trained to give advice in any form, so any advice you did get from a Samaritan would be off the cuff, subjective and probably inappropriate. It's quite a difficult balance to strike for some volunteers who have a natural (often warm) impulse to advise and problem solve, but it's not what our organisation offers.