...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

One issue is many people don't call 999 as at that moment they don't want to be stopped. They may be ambivalent about whether to live or die - but a 999 call is a definite step back from the brink and a decision not to go ahead.

The Samaritans say that they will be there with you in that space - so that there is a chink of hope.

It's good that this thread is balanced by posters who have used the service giving their experiences - good and bad.

There’s another charity The Listening Place where you can go & meet someone to talk to them (only London at the moment I think).

And perhaps you need to read the negativity and bashing that has come out of the thread

From actual people who have had actual experience and found them to be very unhelpful. People are allowed to share bad experiences.

Thousands of people are alive today because they reached out and spoke to the Samaritans. Remember that.
Firstly, you don’t know that - it is anecdotal. You also don’t know how many called and still took their lives.

Here (MN) would be useful if MN allowed it

If you’ve ever seen the kind of “advice” people give on those threads, you’ll understand why.

it makes the people posting it feel all warm and fuzzy for taking part in a temporary charade to show what a Fantastic Person™ they are on social media. Give it a week and they'll forget all about their "door always being open and the kettle always on", just like how they didn't bother with such lipservice platitudes before a famous woman died.

Exactly this. People posting mindless memes about MH and suicide, or Samaritans number is only to make them feel better. It doesn’t help the situation at all.

There is also this place -

www.maytree.org.uk/

One issue is many people don't call 999 as at that moment they don't want to be stopped.

Often if they are at that point, they wouldn’t call Samaratins either.

This thread has worried me no end. What if someone reads this who was thinking of calling them?

If that is you. If you are thinking of calling them then please do. I have spoken to them many times, not just once or twice. They have helped me through some very desperate times.

Mehooha I hope it helps. As I said I have had no direct experience of them but my friend who is the most wonderful kind empathic person has started volunteering with them. As they are a dedicated text service, I imagine they would answer promptly.

They have honestly been a lifeline for me.

I have to admit I had no idea it was a Samaritans' policy to stay on the phone to those who are actually committing the act of suicide and following through with it and not attempting to discourage them. I find that very dark for both the caller and the volunteer. I do understand their whole ethos is around being non-judgmental and being there to listen but I see that as kind of normalising a very brutal and final act that has such wide-reaching repercussions for the family and friends of the individual.

Bluewater. Nobody is saying don't call them. We're saying what our experience of them has been. Please don't try to silence people who are actually trying to advocate for real change - at a national level - by our government.

Some of those experiences have been positive. Nobody is saying that they're not going to help anyone ever.

I'm sure Boris mutters to himself whenever MH crisis comes up 'can't they bloody call the Samaritans?'. It's a get out clause for government.

@Mehooha yes exactly that.

I do agree with you Mehooha but this thread is not going to change the appalling cuts in MH services. Everyone should lobby their MP

kate is would be entirely wrong for a volunteer, however skilled, to give advice to someone who is not known to them and who’s circumstances they know nothing about.

It’s incredibly incredibly rigid, you are absolutely not allowed to give advice and I was pulled up a couple of times for saying things like 'that sounds really upsetting' or 'that must have been really hard' or because it's presuming things about how the caller feels. I literally felt like I was just repeating 'and how did that make you feel?' or 'and do you want to talk more about that?' over and over again.

That alone is enough to convince me not to call - I would find it made me feel far worse to not have much response or actual conversation.

It’s also enough to put me off volunteering myself. One of the few things I can actually accept I’m good at is listening/talking friends through bad times (even my therapist once said I had a future as a therapist ) but doing just the listening side would feel so fake. It reminds me of when I quit a tuition centre because I wasn’t actually allowed to help children struggling with the work, and I couldn’t stand just having to watch a child cry instead of sitting with her and explaining long division. Although I’ve often wondered if that is down to the individual centre, and maybe that’s the case with Samaritans too, so different managers enforce different rules?

I won’t be phoning them even though things are getting tough. Luckily there are friends I can talk to generally although when things are really awful I still shut down. I took myself to the urgent treatment centre when things briefly got bad in August and it helped at the time - spoke to fantastic, patient psychiatric nurse - but things are much worse now and I’m scared of ending up going there all the time and being turned away because that would escalate things for me. I’m not sure whether they could actually help anyway. I am seeing a doctor on Thursday though.

It's unfortunate some posters are desperate to have this thread shut down as I think a very informative and interesting dialogue is happening.

You claim it's better to talk but refuse to see the hypocrisy in saying that then trying to shut down a thread in which there are differing opinions about suicide support services that might help many people who are feeling vulnerable at the moment and want a more realistic account of the service the Samaritans provide, positive and negative alike.

'm sure Boris mutters to himself whenever MH crisis comes up 'can't they bloody call the Samaritans?'. It's a get out clause for government

Yes 100% !

It's a start Rousette. The little acorn grows into a great Oak.

I rang them years ago and spoke to some brilliant people who really helped. They didn't give me advice but they helped by speaking to me and re-framing my problems for me and helping me to see things in a different perspective.

However, I think there's been a change in their training and it's literally become someone at the end of a phone basically saying yes or no or there, there. It actually makes it worse because I ring up when I'm feeling isolated or alienated from others. So it makes me feel like yet another person can't be bothered to respond to me. I've said the same thing as PPs: Are you there? You're not saying anything and it's making it worse. But no, still nothing.

Maybe they're being defensive, i.e. if you say nothing, you can't be sued for saying the wrong thing, or maybe they've got the idea that by doing that they're helping you to solve your own problems. Either way, I think if someone was severely in crisis and feeling very isolated and desperate, it could push them over the edge. There's a difference between advice and active listening, and I think they've forgotten that.

It's a shame because I do appreciate the fact that people are giving up their time for others.

Although I’ve often wondered if that is down to the individual centre, and maybe that’s the case with Samaritans too, so different managers enforce different rules?

Definitely not. It's down to human nature and how good a listener you are, how you can tease things out of people, how you don't offer advice but can talk through options with a caller whereby they come to their own path to take, with your help.

Theoretically you can go to A&E to see a member of their mental health team if you are feeling suicidal. In practice they are so over stretched that there is nothing they can do for you.

I work for a community counselling agency a 10 minute walk from a busy London A&E. I have lost count of the number of people who walk through our door having been sent to us straight from the A&E, after a failed suicide attempt.

Our agency is completely unsuitable for anyone in such immediate danger of self harm. In addition our funding (and training) restricts us to working with a very specific group of clients. Even the ones who qualify have to wait a couple of weeks for an assessment and then wait as long as three months for a regular counselling slot. We’ve had meetings with A&E management many times to explain this but they keep sending them to us because they are desperate and we generally have no alternative but to tell them we can’t help and suggest they return to A&E or their GP. It’s a horrible, never-ending circle

The situation is desperate and without a great deal of money being invested in MH services, it can’t get better.

Also, as sad as it is and as hard as it is to think about, we have to accept that sometimes all the support and treatment in the world won’t stop a desperate, troubled person taking their own life if that’s what they are determined to do. Sometimes we need to have sadness and compassion for that person and those involved with them rather than casting around for someone to blame.

MNHQ edited thread for detail

It would take the government thousands to get a think-tank together of professionals/Samaritans/service users/people with experience of other services together (professional and charitable).
Yet here on MN, in 1 hour, we've had all that with input from all sides - totally free!

Awkward pigeon - there is a lot of misinformation on here - Samaritans absolutely do try and stop people killing themselves - it's the point of the charity. It is not dark!

But they acknowledge that at the moment with someone on the phone they have no power to stop them - they can only try and help the caller find the will to go on - to see that the moment of despair can pass. So there is no threat of taking away that person's choice. Support, understanding and the desperate hope that by being there with someone you can ease their pain enough to allow them to carry on. They can and do ask permission to call an ambulance for that person if they will agree to it and give them their details.

I think this thread has so much nonsense on it (amongst helpful stuff) that it's actively dangerous and should come down.