...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

"My workplace has been winding me up recently with a very high profile campaign about mental health and how much they “care”. Well, not enough to actually resource effectively to reduce stress on their employees; and they always manage out anyone with serious mental health issues; but they say they care, and that’s the important thing, right?"
Mine too. Although at this point I'm just shaking my head.

I so agree with this. It can take a person very many attempts to ring, putting the phone down countless times, plucking up the courage to speak to them. I would hate that this would put that person off.

@SurpriseSparDay a lot of samaritan volunteers are people who have had cause to use their service in the past.

Roussette perhaps that advice needs to be more widely publicised?

My issue is, when someone is in a deep crisis, then they are dangled the Samaritans as some sort of magical lifeline, and then they feel let down because they haven’t been able to magically fix them; then surely that can do irrevocable damage?

Thats what I see this thread as being about. Not “The Samaritans are shit” but “The Samaritans have a very limited scope to be able to help and shouldn’t be recommended as the saviour to all ills on a half arsed social media post so the person can pat themselves on the back and then carry on as normal”.

Heavens, Hillocrew!

So no one is allowed to say this service didn’t work for them?

I have both been a Samaritan and used the Samaritans.

Honestly, it is pot luck. Comparing Samaritans to Alexa isn’t quite accurate - it can be helpful to ‘let it all out’ and to get it in perspective.

The other thing people have got to realise is that Samaritans are always there. Funding for a prisoner in crisis at 3am probably will never exist.

But it does have limitations. The sex calls - they were what finished me as a volunteer. The time - I couldn’t commit to sitting on the phone at 2 am with swollen stinging eyes any more. But also, we were scarily busy. You would honestly finish one call and someone else would ring.

To be honest, I think advice is overrated. Has anyone who is struggling with infertility really not considered adoption, has anyone who is lonely not looked what’s going on in their area to make friends?

I do know there are Samaritans and Samaritans and some aren’t very good but honestly before slating them imagine giving up a minimum of three hours every week just listening to unhappy, troubled and depressed individuals and sometimes listening to them taking their own lives as you listen.

I honestly think that the people who recommend them have never ever had to call them

Called them when I was younger more than once. And I was one for 10 years. So don't agree. Let's not put everyone off trying themselves.

The reality is that calling them on one occasion convinced me to actually proceed with a suicide attempt. Ever think of that?

they're really not fit for the intended purpose or any purpose as far as my experience goes.

I can see that if you are in crisis then talking to a helpline volunteer may not be the most helpful but I think that it's a valuable service for people who do just need to talk. I've used them and it was helpful just to be able to talk through my problems and how I was feeling. I think if you're lonely it can be helpful to know there's someone there who will listen. Everyone has a different set of circumstances. Sometimes it's good just to talk... especially if all anyone else has done is to suggest how to fix problems in the most unhelpful way.
Now, on the other hand, don't get me started on generic self help advice given out by services like that every mind matters one recently. Fill out a bloody form saying that you're struggling and it tells you to try to get more sleep (yeah, I hadn't thought of that one, I'll have a chat to my non sleeping child) or to talk to your friends (I don't have any.) Aaarggh

@Regulargit

"I have called them and they were a life line. I was suicidal. Im concerned your thread will stop others calling them when they are in a crisis.
Nothing works for everyone."

On the flipside of your argument maybe this thread will also help people who may have called the Samaritans previously and it not helped them realise it's not the quick fix that it's fashionable for everyone at the moment to claim it is. Imagine seeing the Samaritans name and number bandied around everyone and then it doesn't help you, someone would potentially be left thinking 'If even the Samaritans can't help me things must be really bad' because they might not be in the right mindset to consider the obvious limitations of the service.

I think everyone in a crisis should seek help obviously in whatever way they can that is most comfortable and accessible for them in their time of need but I would hate for people to think it's this one-size-fits-all solution for everyone that some people are marketing it as, especially on social media.

As someone who has attempted to end their life twice and who has contacted the Samaritans - I personally have not found the service helpful in a time of crisis. I worry too when the number is given out as if they are the answer - for many they are not. Mental health services are shocking and I have seen them deteriorate in my lifetime. I’m sure if my last attempt had been successful there would have been an outpouring of grief- we would have been there etc. etc. Talks cheap. As is posting links to unhelpful services.

Nobody is putting anybody off calling them. I'm just explaining my experience of them and managing expectations to an extent.

“The Samaritans have a very limited scope to be able to help and shouldn’t be recommended as the saviour to all ills on a half arsed social media post so the person can pat themselves on the back and then carry on as normal”

I agree with this. They aren't the answer to every problem. And just linking to them seems more to the benefit of the person doing it.

And yes they are scarily busy. The phone never ever stopped ringing.

Roussette I say this as a volunteer myself - just because a service is staffed by volunteers doesn’t make it beyond reproach. Feedback from users of the service shouldn’t be so lightly ignored because people are “doing The best they can”. When working with vulnerable service users we have a duty to listen to any and all feedback and the charity should commit to improve and identity opportunities for better training or clarification over the actual service that it is providing.

Totally agree with your last post OP.

I don't understand what you mean by 'not fit fir for purpose' Mehooha? Are they fit for their stated purpose- to provide a listening, non-judgemental ear 24/7 - I think we both might say yes.

Are they fit to plug the holes in chronically underfunded collapsing NHS psychiatry and psychology provision. Of course not and were never intended to be - how could they?They are a bunch of volunteers providing a listening, non-judgemental blah blah...

It seems to be barking up the wrong tree to complain that the Samaritans are not an acute NHS psychiatry service. There is an acute NHS psychiatry service - assessment via qualified practitioners in A&E - for anyone who feels that they are a risk to themselves right away. And Samaritan volunteers do signpost to A&E and formal psychiatric services.

I don't think anyone, even the Secretary of State for health, would argue that we don't desperately need more psychology services. Lobby your MP instead of blaming a charity.

I understand that you and others on this thread do not feel that you have been helped. It is made up of individuals - so you may not get someone you click with or who finds the right words that you need at that moment.

But for people who may be desperate and are reading this - many many people are helped by speaking to or emailing the Samaritans - give it a try if you would like someone to listen to you.

The Samaritans don't claim to be an intervention service do they?

My cat gives more support than the Samaritans did on the one occasion I was desperate enough to contact them.

All they did was parrot what I'd said back to me. What it did was reinforce that nobody actually gave a shit, as it felt exactly like a version of stonewalling, except, under the guise of listening, they just bounced the words straight back with no indication the meaning had been taken in or if it had, they didn't care. It could be done by AI just as effectively.

Suppose they can't do anything else. But when somebody is desperate for human contact, to meet with a shit robot transcription service (as that's exactly what it felt like), it's not going to be useful.

Maybe some people like talking at a wall. When you're being treated like that in your daily life, though, it really doesn't help to get it from the place that claims to be helping.

I also agree it can be rigid, but after training you fall into your own way of doing things a bit more.

People say it is “just” listening as if it is absolute silence - it is (or should be!) so much more than that! I didn’t like ‘how did that make you feel’ but occasionally it was appropriate.

One thing I personally dislike is when Samaritans ask for a name. My first name gets misheard on the telephone so you have that awkward ‘ah, Eve / no, it’s Niamh / oh, Leigh ...’ (not my real name) and if you give a ‘fake’ name I find it repeatedly gets used and becomes jarring.

But as rousette has said, they are there, they help. They are volunteers.

Dyme yes. It is an imperfect service. But it is there at 4am when no one else is.
I do think it needs a shake up and there have been huge changes over the years and there needs to be more

yes,especailly at the time of extreme crisis.say,if your at the point of suicide do NOT ring them.THEY WILL NOT help but simply be there with you as they take your life.they cannnot try to stop you or advice but will tell you they will sit with you so your not alnoe whislt you end your life if this is the decision you have come to.
every person who comes to that deicsion needs to be persauded.they need validation of their worth.that they are needed and wanted.so if nyou phone up and someone basically agress you should die it can infact fuel the need to die not help you.

@mistermagpie, as you say there are good reasons for most of what you’ve mentioned, although I’m sorry you felt you weren’t allowed to empathise. Samaritans don’t give advice because they aren’t trained to do so, and it could do more harm than good. I know this is frustrating for some callers (some of whom therefore try other organisations), but for others it’s comforting to have someone just being there without having to face the ‘Well if I were you...’ approach. There are also good reasons why Samaritans don’t talk about themselves or try to talk people out of suicide. These are fully covered in training, at which point you can decide whether it’s for you or not. I agree though that the service doesn’t work for everyone - not for every volunteer; not for every caller. I also agree that pushing it as some kind of ‘catch all’ panacea could be a bit misleading.

you an still be impartial and try and save someones life.you can still ask about them or talk to them and try to be there.this 'not advicing' crap is ridiculous. a person seeing a stranger on a bridge would never go "ok yes if your ready"

I have heard them recommended as a free 24/7 non judgemental service to call.
What you actually get when you call is silence. Yes, silence is non-judgmental but it's not exactly helpful is it? I've often wondered whether they've wandered off to make a coffee for themselves while I rant away to myself.
That's my experience and I should be allowed to state that.

Roussette but the problem is when The Samaritans is touted as the cure to all ills.

I think some posters are so caught up in defending them that they’re missing the point of the thread.

Yes the Samaritans isn’t meant to be a crisis intervention service and yes the problem actually lies with shit NHS funding and yes ultimately they are just volunteers doing the best they can.

So that’s why people should stop recommending it as the magical fix-it service