To ask DH to back off from relative for the sake of our marriage?

[WatchingMyChickenStrip]

DH has a relative who has chronic depression and anxiety which started when a traumatic event happened within the family. The relative has never really sought any help for this- they've been prescribed medication which they haven't taken, offered therapy which they never went to.

Every so often, the relative will phone DH whenever they are having a particularly bad time and need to talk. DH usually ends up going round for hours, listening, trying to help. The relative usually rehashes the tragedy, and when DH comes home he is understanably upset himself for some time afterwards.

DH and I now have a non sleeping toddler, we're both working, and life is busy. I have had a really stressful time at work recently, we've caught every bug going this winter, and on top of the lack of sleep, I'm frankly run down and struggling a bit. Relative phoned DH on Friday, and he went round for two hours. We don't make a big thing of Valentine's day, but it was DH's day to do bath and bedtime while I cooked a nice meal and we were going to have a bit of a date night at home (cheesy I know, but we have nobody to babysit in the evenings) this ended up going up the left due to the relative's crisis.

This is where I'm perhaps being a bitch. The relative seems to need DH most at times when he's likely to be thinking of other things. Right before our wedding, when the baby was a few weeks old, a few days before baby's first Christmas, that sort of thing. I'm not saying they do it deliberately, but obviously I do notice it more when it's around certain times.

So I had a bit of a row with DH when he came back, and we haven't really spoken since. I told him that he needed to consider how much energy he expends on the relative versus how much he expends on his wife, because I was struggling right before his eyes, and he didn't seem to notice because he was caught up with relative. I also said that relative was basically a bottomless pit that he would never be able to fill or fix, and that it wasn't up to DH to be their crutch. DH said this was really unfair, but when I pointed out the length of time this has all been going on, plus the amount of time he has spent round there, and how nothing has helped long term, he went quiet.

We haven't really discussed it since, and I'm not sure whether to bring it up again or whether I've been unfair. DH is a really nice man, and his care and dedication to.family and friends is one of the things that made me fall in love with him, but I feel like at the minute it's at my detriment. I am known as a strong, capable person, which most of the time I'm glad to say I am, but I feel this is now being taken for granted

Counselling together sounds like a good idea. Be warned, however, OP. After the first session where the councillor will likely make reference to the co-dependent relationship they have and how it needs to end, I'd imagine that the relative won't want to go again.

There's a reason why they've refused all help so far. I'd try and prepare your partner for that outcome and for him to be ready to walk away if the relative refuses help for those reasons.

Plan, stop antagonising people. You're looking at this scenario from an incredibly selfish point of view. You have no idea how your family actually feel running after you so stop with the holier than thou bullshit. Professional help is what is needed, here, not dragging everyone else into the mud with them. Stop projecting your issues.

friendsofmine - he's being asked to frequently listen to incredibly explicit details of a tragedy that equally impacted on him. The sibling is using OP's DH in a terrible manner and is directly impacting on the OPs DH too - withdrawing from family life until his own coping mechanisms can pull him of the relived trauma his sibling is subjecting him to.

YADNBU OP

You OH is being put through repeated trauma by another individual which impedes his ability to live a mentally healthy life. You say they react differently to trauma - it could be that the sibling resent this which is why they rehash it over and over to try and bring your husband down to justify why they feel this way. This is a very very unhealthy dynamic, you cannot save all the shit for once person in your life without knowing this will impact them. This is an active choice to compartmentalise their life as their siblings expense.

& I speak as someone who has sought intervention for trauma and received it and occasionally it comes and bites me on the bum again and it is fucking horrible, I literally struggle to breathe. God forbid I would ever behave so selfishly as to not consider the impact on others.

Also the rehashing part is only part of the work, usually the middle chunk of it.
In addition if a therapist had done the same trauma narrative work for years and nothing had changed then they and their supervisor would be looking at different ways of working, because this was wasn't successful treatment for this client.

You don't sound like you are dealing with anything other than normal motherhood and therefore he isn't really harming your family by being so kind infrequently

Firstly motherhood is tough full stop. Secondly it’s clear that this set up is having a VERY detrimental effect on @WatchingMyChickenStrip and her immediate family.

OP,
Yes you knew about the trauma when you married your dh. So did your dh when he agreed to marry you, when he agreed you both wanted children. His siblings needs, do not and should not come at the expense of your marriage, your mental health or your child.
Your updates show a very unhealthy obsession on the siblings part that is re traumatising your dh. Making your family life harder and more stressful.
Of course family help each other. This has been going on for years though and his sibling isn’t improving at all. Other people are now suffering the consequences of this person refusing professional help. That is unfair and very dangerous.
I think joint counselling for the siblings is a good idea. Also if possible counselling for yourself and hubby. As this has been going on so long and your natural needs as a partner have been pushed to the side.
We all want to offer help when relatives are ill. That’s how it should be, but who will look after your child or you if you become so exhausted you can’t carry on.

Sorry bold fail on the top part of my post!

OP, your DH needs to set boundaries. He is NOT qualified to take on his family members mental health condition. He is NOT qualified to be able to process the burden this placed on him and as a result onto you. This is not being hard or unkind. It is self care your DH needs to practice self care and prioritise his own family. Being at the beck and call if his sick family member can delay them fro
Seeking proper, productive help from someone qualified and able to manage the situation. Boundaries. He needs to set boundaries that he is not setting at present.

The sibling needs help to process their grief. Reliving it over and over again demonstrates that they're stuck in a loop which family and friends haven't been able to help them move out of.

Also, there are a lot of people who seem to think that a well sibling should help an unwell sibling. But people aren't inherently well or unwell. OP's DH obviously isn't coping very well with what he's being asked to do as it impacts him significantly between the actual conversations. How long is he going to stay well if he keeps having to do this?

Rehashing trauma in the most detail possible is precisely how trauma focused CBT works and is totally healthy.

That is not how it works

I think your husband should man up grow a pair and tell this sibling that he has given enough if his time to them and to tell them to get counselling or therapy and not put thier shit on him. They are seriously taking the piss and if I was in your shoes I wouldn't be handling this as well as you are. I bet it's a sister....

This sibling sounds selfish and full of thier own self importance to be honest.....they sound like the precious one not you.

Your husband is enabling truly unhealthy behaviour.

He has suffered the same loss and has grieved in his own way.

The relative has not only obsessed over the loss and refused professional help, but is also dragging a spouse and your husband down.

Your husband needs to withdraw and learn how to say no to this emotional vampire.

YADNBU.

OP, perhaps therapy would be good for your husband on his own but joint therapy with his siing does not sound like a good idea at all.

I think your husband being forced to re-live the horrific details of the death could be giving him a bit of PTSD.

I think I he needs to focus on his recovery.
His sibling has a spouse.

Detaching is what is required not increased attachment.

One more thing. I think when there is someone in a family that is seen to cope, and is dependable, they are never seen as in need of help. I think this is your husband's role in the family, and yours, and it won't change until he insists on it.

Rehashing trauma in the most detail possible is precisely how trauma focused CBT works and is totally healthy

I had trauma focused CBT and that's most definitely not how it worked!

People can't start therapeutic work for trauma until they are ready and stable enough

Couldn’t disagree with this more. The longer you leave it, the more entrenched the thought patterns become and the harder it is to fix. What the PP above is suggesting is that your should wait until a magical day in the future when your PTSD has completely resolved all by itself before you seek any help, which is obviously back to front - if you really have PTSD, that day is not likely to come unless you have some kind of professional intervention.

My PTSD was pretty bad (violent stranger rape and attempted murder). I wasn’t really able to function due to the flashbacks and panic attacks. I was already on medication, which had helped to deaden the constant terror a little, but was still housebound and in tears multiple times a day. It was certainly showing no signs of getting better over time. When I started therapy at the Maudsley about a year later (NHS waiting list), I couldn’t leave the house alone (and often not even then). I was terrified of all strange men. I was literally shaking all the way to clinic, and burst into tears in reception. I couldn’t fill any of the forms in because I was sobbing and shaking so badly. I couldn’t even explain what the trauma was to the therapist because I couldn’t bring myself to say it.

Twelve weeks later, after intensive PTSD therapy, I was able to visit the site of the rape with my therapist. It wasn’t easy, but I managed it. My flashbacks had gone, my panic attacks had gone, I was able to leave the house and go back to college. I was like a different person.

But yep, totally unreasonable of OP to think her relative should try seeking professional help, no chance at all that that could be of any benefit whatsoever

Rehashing trauma in the most detail possible is precisely how trauma focused CBT works and is totally healthy

Another nope.

YANBU
He sounds like a rescuer while the sibling sounds stuck as the victim.
Neither is helping the other.

He needs to be supportive without enabling.

Maybe next time just as a token he can say no. Now doesn't work.

And a no from me too @ChristmasCarcass, the whole focus was on learning how to manage how the trauma made me feel. Realising I could cope with these feelings and then moving forward, at no point was being stuck in the same hideous place seen as good.

The sibling grieves differently. They want to remember all the gory details of the death, and there are many. They want to rehash everything, how the person looked when they were dead, the funeral, the circumstances of their death. I can't tell you how distressing DH finds this

This part actually does ring bells for me - there was a stage when I sought out the no most disturbing and unpleasant depictions of rape I could find, almost compulsively. It was like picking at a scab, deliberately torturing myself.

It was definitely NOT healthy, and definitely re-traumatised me (I used to give myself terrible nightmares, with new material to torture myself with).

I have heard similar stories from other rape survivors. I would not view this as even remotely comparable to structured narrative therapy - it is the complete opposite, deliberately wallowing in the horror of it.

Caroline Flack did "reach out" she was told she was draining. Fear of a reaction like that stops a lot reaching out, or worse people do nothing when you tell them you need them

This is very sad, but it doesn't mean other people have endless amounts to give. You can't just give and give if another person is draining, on the basis that they may kill themselves. In her case, she was in crisis and a friend was actually with her most of the time. In the situation here, the family member has these crises regularly over years and that's a long time to keep giving in this situation.

Own lifejacket on first, that's the rule of parenting. It has to apply here too I think. You can't just endlessly be there in support in case the person commits suicide, that's not realistic as a way for either of the pair to live.

Come to think of it, @WatchingMyChickenStrip, you've not said much about how the sibling's OH deals with this apart from them being a "pat on the arm" type - or the rest of the family for that matter?
They sounds like fairly stable relationships from your descriptions of their family times and holidays, so I'm wondering what form their coping takes in the face of this extreme grief and if there are any pointers for your DH here?

I realise I just used the non-preferred term for taking one's own life as discussed on the other thread. Apologies.

I feel sorry for whoever made the 'draining' comment to Caroline Flack as they will now be vilified for it, when we have no idea what they themselves were coping with, how much Caroline had asked of them already and how often, etc.