Is no funeral selfish?

[BitchyArriver]

Now, I know the bear pit of AIBU is not the most appropriate place for this. Really it should be in Bereavement but I really wanted the traffic and to enable voting to understand if I’m in the wrong or not.

My DH lost his father yesterday. It was quite a shock but we did know his health wasn’t the best. They had been estranged for years after he walked out on his family when the kids were little and never sent even a birthday card let alone CS.

Despite this they had made up with each other in recent years, seen each other very occasionally and he attended our wedding, sat at front row, in family pictures etc.

I’ve just been told today that there will be no funeral. Apparently his last wishes were to be cremated privately without any mourners. His immediate family (second wife and children) have decided to grant this wish even though they feel strange about it.

AIBU to say that funerals are for the living, and if you’re dead why would you care? I think that a funeral and wake would really help my DH to process this.

I’ve got my hard hat on. I also should have name changed but I think I’ve got zero fucks to give by now.

YABU it was your DFILs choice, and only his DW has any say in it.

YANBU not having a funeral is selfish and takes away the opportunity for people who weren’t at the hospital to say goodbye.

I voted YANBU but then reading the thread further people seem to be saying that they would do some sort of get together to remember the person anyway? To me it's the get together bit that matters, to pay respects and/or take comfort from others. But then if you do the get together are you not still overriding the deceased's wishes?

I don't think I get it to be honest. But then, as an Irish person, what I've read on mumsnet about death and funerals in England sounds really traumatic to me anyway.

I feel so strongly (esp having lost both parents and a sibling) that a funeral is an important stage in the grieving process. A friend of ours died recently and had a private cremation in the morning and a church service for friends and wider family in the afternoon. There wasn't the sense of doom that a coffin brings and it meant it was more a celebration. I suspect that's what I'd do as I thought it was much nicer for the mourners.

My dear relative (who is terminally ill) wants this. I don’t like it. There are so many of us who love her and I think there is a real value to allowing those that want to to get together and focus on their memories and feelings about the person that died with others who also have memories and feelings. I agree they can be expensive, but they don’t need to be, and it is this kind of thing which enhances families, community and individuals. Society seems to be moving in a direction that devalues these things. Funerals are frequently important for processing grief and for bringing people together. I do think it is selfish of my relative not consider the needs of those she loves and to focus only on the money and “not wanting a fuss”. You can have a no frills funeral, but I don’t like my feelings of grief and desire to say goodbye being dismissed as “a fuss”.

I voted YANBU. Funerals ARE for the living. But I also think that in such emotional matters reasonableness or not has absolutely sweet fa to do with anything. And the question is not whether a dead person's wishes are selfish (they won't change them) but whether those wishes should be overriden for the benefit of the mourners.

At the end of the day, there is nothing that stops those who WANT to have a ceremony/gathering from having one. But it will likely be lower key, less formal and probably not attended as much as a funeral would have been.

Although you (he) could also organize a memorial service (pretty much a funeral minus the body-disposal part). Again, the dead FiL won't have a say in that, and if his widow or anybody else doesn't want to come, she doesn't have to.

Perhaps just perhaps your husband seeks not just a way to say goodbye, some form of closure ritual, but also to have his ''official'' role (second to only the spouse/partner) recognized?

Just some thoughts.

For what it's worth, when my partner died couple of years ago (traumatically and unexpectedly), the whole lead up to the funeral, and the funeral itself were both key factors in even starting to process the event and start grieving ''properly''. I could not imagine not having one. But it might be different if the person dying is of the age people tend to die at, and if their departure was expected.

"what I've read on mumsnet about death and funerals in England sounds really traumatic to me anyway."
Traumatic is a big word, what on earth do you think happens at UK funerals?

Saves a ton of money for the family, if anything else!

I was very very close to my GFather and it was hard enough losing him, but the funeral was absolutely heartbreaking for me I dreaded it and considered not going as I was finding it just too painful. I think I would have been very grateful to have not had a funeral to attend and I’ve considered having a direct cremation, I don’t want to ever make my family hurt like I did that day

We didn't have a funeral for my Dad when he died last year. He wasn't religious and we didn't want someone who never met him mouthing platitudes he didn't believe in.
Instead we had an unattented cremation, scattered his ashes with just the family present and hosted a celebration of his life with photos, poems, music and lots of wine! It was rather wonderful and actually is a happy memory!

Direct cremations here as well. They're only a grand odd. As a compromise we're doing a memorial thing locally so people can come and group if they want. It weeds out the knobend family members who feel obliged to come, I only want people who love me and husband to come.

Why don't you and your husband do something privately to say goodbye to his dad OP? It might help.

Traumatic is a big word, what on earth do you think happens at UK funerals?

That you daren't pay your respects or you'll be accused of coming along for a free buffet. That the close relatives feel they have to be 'hosts' and it is intrusive for people to attend. That only small numbers of people are meant to attend. That children aren't welcome. All of those are things that I've read repeatedly on mumsnet and they are unrecognisable to me as to what a funeral involves. When my elderly mum's last surviving sibling died and was buried in England my mum was unable to attend due to her age and health, she found it really difficult to deal with the fact that her beloved sibling was buried with only a handful of mourners.

I’m leaving my body to medical science, no funeral, cremation or service of any description.
I will leave money for a nice get together at a pub.
My family are perfectly happy with this.

I haven't voted as I'm on app.

English funerals can be traumatic, but TBH they're the only ones I've attended. From what I've heard Irish ones work through things more effectively (for want if a better phrase ). There are so many threads on MN where posters are horrified that a child would attend a funeral. So yes. Funerals are bloody expensive and can be hard going BUT i think it's important to for people to get together, even if it's for everyone to agree what a dick the decreased person was. It's about closure.

I lost all interest in funerals after attending my Aunts. The vicar called her Elizabeth all through the service and talked about her wonderful life.

My Aunt’s name was Eleanor.

" I don’t quite understand this need for people to be at a funeral to pay their last respects. It’s not as if the person is there is it?

My late grandmother’s belief as well as many other family members was if you couldn’t find time for me when I was alive, why would I care that you suddenly found the time when I’m dead.

My grandmother was a no-nonsense woman and wanted to be cremated and that is what was done. My grandfather had a military funeral. Neither made the grieving experience easier or harder. Knowing I had years of memories of them helped more than seeing the lifeless shells of their bodies.

I agree with the person who spoke about intense three day mourning- that really helps I think too as in you can't stop that intensity. Funerals aren't held during that time in the UK so it doesn't quite apply, but I think otherwise life can drift back to normal, you feel unsettled and upset, but there's nothing to direct it towards.

Er, you mean CHRISTIAN funerals aren't held within that time frame in the UK. I'm Jewish and all of my family members have been buried in 2 days or less. All funerals are very simple and identical. Followed by 3-7 days of sitting Shiva. Very focused on the mourners and the whole community very intensively supporting them throughout the first week of bereavement.

My husband is from a British Christian background and in his family it can take weeks and there is loads of fading around trying to create the 'perfect' funeral. I find it really weird and unhealthy and it doesnt seem to help with mourning at all.

To deny a person's last wish is the ultimate in controlling behaviour! How dare anyone else interfere? All the tedious wedding wails about other people trying to inflict their ideas are usually met with 'It's your day, have what you want' yet this isn't extended by many to one's death!

Perhaps because they're dead and will neither know nor care mrsB?

Depending on what they are, a dying person's last wishes can be pretty controlling too. What if a despised relative demands a lavish funeral w everyone in attendance sobbing for them, with donations to Britain First in lieu of flowers? Would
you just go along w that?

If you leave your body to medical science, there is no funeral (at least not close to death)

I hope I wouldn’t need a ceremony for people to remember me .
It’s your fil’s last wish ,I think he should have it granted

I hate funerals as a chief mourner. The hymns. The coffin. The cars. The expense. The crap food. The drinking. The everyone looking at each other. Having to do the thanks for coming line up. The uncomfortable clothes. The inevitable rain. It's just so rubbish. But, it is nice to have someone you love recognised by others, that other people loved them too.

I don’t think it’s selfish, no. I’m not sure how I feel about thousands of pounds being spent on flowers and sausage rolls when my immediate family could utilise it more efficiently, however I don’t think you’re being U to be upset about it. I hope you all find a way to grieve without going against his wishes.

My aunt didn’t want a big funeral- she was adamant about it. There were 9 of us there. It’s what she wanted, so my cousin obliged. Could your DH attend on his own? Maybe speak to FIL’s widow?

He may be dead but his wishes were his wishes and there's no way you get to decide whether they should be adhered to or not. It's going to be difficult for his wife and other children not to get that closure too, yet they putting their wants aside for the man they loved, so why can't you and your husband?

I think people perhaps haven't been to many funerals lately or if they have, they are of old people. The two most recent ones I've attended had no hymns, only fun or pop music, or meaningful moving music, but no singing. Clips/photos were shown. People stood up/spoke about what that person meant to them. One I went to some children played some music. It wasn't anything like the black cars/mourners procession/flowers efforts everyone is going on about here. At one it was a wicker coffin and so everyone put in flowers and it was beautiful. At another, there was no flowers, donations to a favourite charity. I think funerals can be different, I hate all the black/doom stuff, I'm more with the personal memories. Yes, a memorial later on would fulfil basically the same function, but my guess is after the immediate aftermath, everyone just continues their lives. To those saying the funeral causes too much suffering/distress, you may be right, it can be overwhelming, but for most people, I think releasing some of that and sharing it and seeing others cared for this person is helpful. It was the first time one of my relatives had shed a tear at the funeral- it just couldn't come out before that. I don't think sitting or suppressing grief is a good idea at all, and some of these ideas come to me too close to the idea of just carrying on without the person and hoping you aren't upset which for me, anyway, wouldn't work- I need to cry and weep and think about the person and a funeral provides that opportunity to really dig deep and do some of that. But no hymns and no black, unless you want that!