Is no funeral selfish?

[BitchyArriver]

Now, I know the bear pit of AIBU is not the most appropriate place for this. Really it should be in Bereavement but I really wanted the traffic and to enable voting to understand if I’m in the wrong or not.

My DH lost his father yesterday. It was quite a shock but we did know his health wasn’t the best. They had been estranged for years after he walked out on his family when the kids were little and never sent even a birthday card let alone CS.

Despite this they had made up with each other in recent years, seen each other very occasionally and he attended our wedding, sat at front row, in family pictures etc.

I’ve just been told today that there will be no funeral. Apparently his last wishes were to be cremated privately without any mourners. His immediate family (second wife and children) have decided to grant this wish even though they feel strange about it.

AIBU to say that funerals are for the living, and if you’re dead why would you care? I think that a funeral and wake would really help my DH to process this.

I’ve got my hard hat on. I also should have name changed but I think I’ve got zero fucks to give by now.

YABU it was your DFILs choice, and only his DW has any say in it.

YANBU not having a funeral is selfish and takes away the opportunity for people who weren’t at the hospital to say goodbye.

if you had asked me previously I would have said no funeral, no need.

Recently I've changed my mind. I think it depends on the funeral. No singing hymns if you don't want- play the music the dead person loved, include videos or pictures and speak about them/have photos, you can do what you like. You aren't hemmed in with hymns at all.

Some people don't need a funeral to realise the person has died. But there are points at which it can help to realise that, they include viewing the body (which a recent thread on here revealed lots hated, but I have found extremely helpful), being part of the group organizing the funeral (doesn't have to be one person), going to the funeral and seeing the coffin, talking with people after the funeral, not in a fake jolity way but just in a lovely feeling like that person mattered kind of a way.

The trouble is we do have difficulty with death and push it back, and those casual opportunities to chat about the dead are not present really in our culture (e.g. lots of cultures do have days where you honour the dead, from Mexico to some Orthodox culture) and if you think everyone is going to travel across several hundred miles to have a cup of tea to talk about Bert six months later, well, they aren't going to.

I know how it feels to be that immediate family caught in the storm, but I do think it helps to go through a funeral (if done well and totally about the person) together, and for that time to end.

I agree with the person who spoke about intense three day mourning- that really helps I think too as in you can't stop that intensity. Funerals aren't held during that time in the UK so it doesn't quite apply, but I think otherwise life can drift back to normal, you feel unsettled and upset, but there's nothing to direct it towards.

All that said, I totally respect the wishes of the dead person and if they said no funeral, I'd do no funeral. I'm not for funerals under all circumstances, often they don't feel quite appropriate, but neither does being very private and not really doing anything later on feel quite right either, so we don't seem to have cracked it (and I know quite a lot of people who are really really struggling with deaths from several years ago so funerals/no funerals is not a cure for that for sure).

We all want direct cremations with no service at all. We have all written it into our wills as a ‘wish’
Of course it’s not selfish. People can get together if they wish.

OP, you are putting a very negative slant on this.

My grandma had outlived everyone bar her daughter, son in law, grandson and me (and great grandsons, but they were babies so didn't come).

It might have been ok if the person who led the service had spoken to my mum a bit more, but it was very obvious she knew bugger all about my grandma, and instead just waffled on about the era she lived in for 20 minutes, local history, with a few presumptions about my grandma thrown in, most of which were wildly inaccurate.

I'm not sure I'd bother either after that.

We all have our opinions I guess so no hard hat needed this day.
I have organised my own funeral, I'm having the same. I don't think I'm particularly important, wild animals die every day and have no funerals they just go back to the earth.
I'd rather my DS and DIL spent the money on a nice holiday for themselves than waste £5k on a corpse.
The only thing I've asked him to do is go to the South Downs national park and scatter my ashes there along with the ashes of my cats whilst not facing into the wind

I know someone whose will stipulates husband/wife who is left and their three children, to attend a cremation only. Not even the children’s partners are to attend. It’s already been honoured for one. Family are fine about it. Done as the husband/wife don’t want people crying and carrying on

Natural burials are usually much more expensive than a cheap funeral.

@madcatladyforever There is some evidence that elephants have a kind of gathering over dead loved ones.

Of course his final wish should be granted. I'm shocked that you would even consider it.

I've been thinking a lot about this. I suppose there are many reasons why a person might opt for a direct cremation - among them saving the family expense.

My father died some years ago and had saved into a funeral plan - not enough to cover it entirely, but told me before he died that he only wanted the most basic of funerals - 'a simple committal.'

This was typical of him as he was a very self effacing man, entirely focused on my mother and her happiness. He gave her a lovely funeral a few years previously.

However, when he died, I wanted more than a basic funeral for him. I wanted to remember his life, the things he loved, what he had been to me and in the world.

I found the process of arranging his funeral, choosing hymns and readings appropriate to his life, flowers he had particularly loved, and arranging a small church for the very small congregation (he was 102, so few friends left alive) very therapeutic.

Afterwards, I had prepared food centred around dishes that were his favourites.

As a PP said, funerals are for the living, and certainly in my case, helped to begin to work through my grief.

I have ended up thinking that I will leave my funeral arrangements to those who are left, and make sure there is enough accessible money to cover it.

The last funeral I went to was my uncle's at a local crematorium. It was a conveyor belt. It was religious in character, even though his family are not avidly religious themselves. There was a rumour that another uncle had to pay for it as the funeral directors fleeced my aunt. 20 minutes, in, out, how impersonal. I'm sure my uncle would have rolled his eyes and sighed. There was also a burial in a waterlogged field. I was uninspired.

My husband wants to be dumped in the nearby woods and "let the foxes have me". I want a direct cremation. I hated my wedding, because of all the fuss (another story) so I'd rather go quietly. It'll be up to my family if they want to have a get together.

My gran was cremated privately and family gathered at home to chat about her and share memories. She died abroad where private cremations are the norm. I actually thought it was great and would prefer something similar for myself.

my mum has just had a direct cremation last month. Was so easy for all the family - that was why she arranged it. All paid for, papers laid out before her death. My 3 siblings are in far flung corners of the UK, her friends and sisters are all infirm, in their 80s and 90s and unable to travel.

She asked that we sibs get together sometime and sprinkle her when the sun is shining, but that it doesn't have to be any time soon.

Perhaps rather than a funeral your DH could suggest a family gathering to deal with the ashes sometime in the future.

We loved the simplicity and ease of organisation so much (it was my mum through and through - all organised) that we siblings have all arranged the same for ourselves.

How is it selfish? I would love to just be taken away, no funeral, no mourners. I hate funerals and the last thing I would want is someone sobbing at my graveside. They can take my organs/blood/tissue whatever they need to help another one live and dispose of me as they see fit. My DH knows this. My DC know this.

People who are close to me don't influence my choices in life, so they won't be influencing my choices in death either.

I actually think me it’s important that the funeral (or lack of funeral) reflect the person who died, not the survivors. My grandmother had a full catholic mass and I as a non-catholic even participated in the service at her request (I checked with the priest and this was allowed). My grandfather had no funeral and we all came to accept that. My mom wanted a lunch at my sister’s house with no service. We had to compromise on a lunch at a venue because my sister was not up to hosting, but I think we honored the spirit of what my mom wanted. People sitting around sharing stories and the kids free to play, not stuffed into pews.

I think your DH and you have to respect his wishes. People often leave specific instructions so that those left behind don't fall out trying to guess what they would have wanted.

He may have thought he didn't deserve a gathering or he may not have wanted to leave others having to pay for an expensive funeral - apologies if this has been covered already.

I do know what a direct cremation is. Where I live it is £500 for the cremation fee, no family attendance. If Drs need to certify £160 roughly. The crematorium usually has a bit of a wait to book in for. So you need somewhere to store the body and transport to crematorium. You could take the body to your house in a van if you have one, store it in your house, and then transport it to the crematorium. In this case the total cost will be about £660. Some crematoriums charge more than this for the crematorium fee.
But most people do want the body collected and stored and transported to the crematorium by a third party. This really increases the cost. In some areas there are undertakers that will do this cheaply, but there is nowhere near me that will. But you are talking a minimum of £650.

I must admit I hope there is not enough left of me for a funeral when I go - organs, tissue, skin, bones - all can be donated.

Put the rest in a tesco bag and pop it in the wheely bin....

It's a tricky one, but ultimately the deceased wishes should be respected.

Me personally, would be totally fine with having no funeral (for myself), or even if a close family friend didn't want one. I find them really distressing, and I'd hate to think of anyone feeling like that at mine. unless I'm a massive bellend without realising

I do get where you're coming from though OP. They're important for the living, to say goodbye and get closure, and I imagine it'll feel a bit weird not getting to do that.

@karencantobe you're absolutely right. I'd been skim reading the website. There's a breakdown of what is and what isn't included; crematorium fees and Dr's fees are on top of the headline figure. Still works out a fair bit cheaper than a cheap funeral (plus much less fuss) so I'm going to go for it. I think it will be nice for whoever I leave behind if they don't have anything to sort out.

I might suggest that they go out for a curry to remember me. That's more my style.

@karencantobe - it is just a different type of end - no ceremony, no mourners, the co-op or whoever can still do the admin and storage. Costs are about £1300 instead of £3k+. Mum's was slightly less as she died and was cremated in Scotland.

I am sorry for your loss. My uncle (mum's brother) and my mum were never close, and in fact disliked each other quite intensely. They did keep in touch on and off, and he commented once to her that he did not want any funeral ("just put me in a box and cremate me") were his very words. He died last December on his 80th birthday, and as mum was his next of kin, it was left to us to arrange the funeral. We ended up walking into the funeral directors and arranging a Direct Cremation - it took all of 20 mins to arrange. This meant that there was no service, no-one was able to witness the cremation, and they did not even let you know the day and crematorium! Personally, although I didn't exactly like my uncle as a person, I would have liked some sort of ceremony but as mum said, they were his wishes and we were merely attending to them. You are not being selfish, but merely carrying out his wishes which is the right thing to do in the long run, I reckon.

On a side note, one thing you may like to consider is having a private family event or ceremony to remember him, perhaps marked by some kind of religious or spiritual ritual that is right for you. On New Year's Eve, I took some of his personal effects and released them in the river near to our home, just before the new decade dawned.

@madcatladyforever There is some evidence that elephants have a kind of gathering over dead loved ones.

I know, it's heartbreaking to see them but also heartwarming.
I'm pagan but my son is a firm atheist and believes there is nothing after this. I know he would hate to sit in a building while people gave a eulogy over someone that he knows is no longer here.
I know him so well, I know he would prefer to be alone with his memories and my ashes so it's not entirely for me.

I think the last gift you can give someone is to follow their funeral (or lack thereof) request.

The week my Mum died, she and I talked about everything she wanted and didn't want. I know it surprised a lot of people because it wasn't anything like what other people in her area had. But that didn't matter because I knew I was doing exactly what she wanted.
That's how you honour someone.

To help your DH deal with his conflicted feelings, just be there. Bereavement's a journey, not a day out.

I want a cremation only without funeral for these very unselfish reasons:

1. Funerals are bloody awful and I’d not want my family to suffer through one. Wakes can be lovely though so a gathering somewhere nice to reminisce would be fine.

1. The cost if a funeral is stupid. I’d rather my family have that money to make their lives easier, not an undertakers business.

1. Funerals are hard work to arrange and can be stressful to sort out the logistics. I don’t want that for my family when they are grieving.

So YABU. Respect the mans wishes for whatever reason he chose them.

Your FIL was as selfish in death as he was in life. Happy to sit in the front row at your wedding and swagger into the family photos, but not show the tiniest care for his family. Also he may not have wanted his children meeting and discussing him: he had much to be ashamed of. That's the sad truth.

It's a painful time for DH because he knows he will never now have a better relationship with his father. (I don't think that would ever have happened anyway, but people do go on hoping.) DH is lucky to have you caring about him. I think you could help most by having whatever kind of ceremony, or remembrance, feels right for you.

I hope DH will consider seeing a bereavement counsellor. That may be all he needs, or the counsellor may be able to suggest other things to do to say goodbye and feel free.
www.cruse.org.uk
humanism.org.uk/ceremonies/