David Lammy and Jamaican deportees

[Myohmy111]

David Lammy’s speech, in which he is critical of the government’s decision to deport convicted offenders to Jamaica, was very impassioned. However, it was disingenuous of him to have made the connection between this issue and the Windrush scandal. The two are not the same; the Windrush debacle was a disgrace and involved numbers of innocent individuals being caught up and deported illegally to the Caribbean . Those who were deported today were convicted criminals who served at least 12 months in prison and crucially, they were subject to due process. Unless there is evidence to indicate that other nationals of different ethnicities and races, such as white Australians, have not been subject to the same level of enforcement of this policy , he is wrong to label it as a racist move by the government.

I’ll bet she does know what citizenship is

If you can’t answer the question just say...nobody minds

So if you are born outside this country and commit a crime we shall deport you. But if you are born in this country and commit a crime overseas we shall refuse to take you back. Heads we win, Tails you lose.

It's almost as good as the combination of the bedroom tax and the two-child limit.

'Why hasn't Rolph Harris been deported. He's still an Australian citizen.' No he isn't, he's a British citizen.

I see you still don’t understand what citizenship is

If you want to discuss the citizenship point you are trying to make, that would be great. As far as I understand, someone who comes here as a baby is not automatically a British Citizen. I may be missing something so it would be good if you could expand on the point so I can understand your point of view.

Rolf Harris!

Also the fact that so many of the cabinet seem to have done class A drugs. And Mr Johnson himself not only did class A drugs, but also conspired to have a journalist beaten up - and of course was born in the US. So could we strip him of his citizenship nd deport him?

Mr Johnson himself not only did class A drugs, but also conspired to have a journalist beaten up - and of course was born in the US. So could we strip him of his citizenship nd deport him?

AKA Sajid's Law

....which could be why he's gone?

Doing drugs is not the same as dealing drugs, and is unlikely to attract a 12 month custodial as he has not been charged, never mind convicted that argument is moot.

There have been at least 2 sex offenders returned from Aussie to the UK In the last decade.

Except black people are more likely to get arreared and charged in posession. However conspiring to get someone beaten up is a crime.

Deport BoJo.

Usually MN "this isn't racism" bs.

Boris Johnson was born both a British and a US citizen. However he renounced his US citizenship and only has his British citizenship. So no, he cannot be deported for committing a crime. Before he renounced it, he could have IF he had become a terrorist like Begum or the Beatles did.
Criminals only get automatic deportation for more than a 12month sentence if they are not British citizens at all.
Dual/multinationals have to commit the equivalent of treason against the U.K. to have their citizenship stripped and be deported. This goes even for immigrants who naturalise without renouncing their original citizenship.

Except black people are more likely to get arreared and charged in posession.

You don’t get a 12month custodial sentence for possession! Besides all dealers try and get away with a possession charge by saying the kilos they were caught with were for “personal use” only. The law is pretty clear that if you are caught with over x amount, you are a dealer not a user because it’s more than any one person can reasonably use to get high.

The fee to apply for citizenship is a lot cheaper in the U.K. than most other countries. Some countries like China and Singapore you cannot even apply for citizenship no matter how long you live there as a legal resident.

Seems cruel to deport men who came here as children, have had their own children, who have no links to Jamaica and have served their time.

Some of these men are children of Windrush who've not formalized their status as British and have been in the UK since they were children.

I don't think we should be deporting people who have arrived in the UK as children and who have family here.

The people who keep repeating Rolf Harris and Boris Johnson are missing the point they are British citizens. The people deported had chance to avail their selves of British citizenship they didnt and chose crime instead.

12 months or above sentence you have done something wrong.

Why are people bringing Boris Johnson into the argument

He's a British citizen and hasn't been sentenced to over 12 months for a crime

Unlike those we are sending back to their own countries

Yes and no.

I can see why windrush victims would be upset by being lumped in with criminals but at the same time there is absolutely no denying that the government's hostile environment program is heavily negatively weighted against black people.

Rolph Harris is a convicted peadophile but I don't see Priti Patel calling for his deportation.

Are all of the crimes of everyone on that flight serious enough to warrant them being sent back to a country they've not set foot in since they were 5 years old? I'm not sure they are.

It's clearly a political move on the Tory's part if you look at the bigger picture.

If they haven’t “formalised their status’ then they are NOT British.

What next? Saying it’s cruel to deny a person a GP job because they haven’t “formalised their status’ as an actual doctor by completing medical school and paying some £50k in tuition fees?

£1300 to become a citizen is achievable. And do not forget that refugees & their children are charged £0 to get citizenship.

the government's hostile environment program is heavily negatively weighted against black people.

This is not true.

Rolph Harris is a convicted peadophile but I don't see Priti Patel calling for his deportation.

Because he is a British citizen unlike the criminals on the deportation list.

The Tories are deporting fewer people since records began in 2004

Enforced returns or deportations from the UK fell to 7,624 in the year ending September 2019, the lowest number since records began in 2004 and 25% lower than the previous year.

Compared to:
189,459 work-related visas
276,889 Sponsored study (Tier 4) visas
180,257 visas granted for all family reasons
19,480 asylum grantees
283,079 grants of extension of stay
87,441 (96% of those who applied) received settlement or indefinite leave to remain
179,380 applied/granted British citizenship

Total; 1.2 million

Out of all that, 7 thousand or so criminals being sent away hardly makes the U.K. an unwelcoming country.

Unlike those we are sending back to their own countries

Because he is a British citizen unlike the criminals on the deportation list

The question that some people on here can't seem to answer:

Is it morally right to send someone to a country they left as a baby, because they committed a crime in the UK - a country they may have spent virtually their entire life in, been through the education system, the culture of that country - and all that can bring about?

I think some people would have no issue with that at all.

I would hope more people would have some empathy for the situation and think that deportation in some cases is an over the top reaction.

I would be interested to hear the views of some of the recent posters on here about whether they think this is morally right.

I have no issue with it. Regardless of when they came here, they've never become British citizens. And they're criminals.

so no outrage from me

so no outrage from me

Fair enough.

I hope that no one you care about in your life never finds themselves in such a position.

Chomalunga I'm pretty sure they won't.

deported for a driving offence

as Ali86 posted

Chevon Brown. Deported last year for a driving offence.
Just a comment on this specific case as it is often used to show how harsh the system is. Driving offence makes it sound as if he parked on a double yellor or something but he seriously endangered life <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15246900.learner-driver-jailed-following-115mph-chase/" target="_blank">https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15246900.learner-driver-jailed-following-115mph-chase/. I don't know enough to say whether deportaion was right but I am uncomfortable with the term 'driving offence' being used to imply 'trivial'. He appears to have utterly disregarded the lives of others. The fact that his weapon was a car seems to aggravate this rather than diminish it.

And in the link posted by Gilead, he doesn't seem to accept that what he did was serious.

Good riddance