David Lammy and Jamaican deportees

[Myohmy111]

David Lammy’s speech, in which he is critical of the government’s decision to deport convicted offenders to Jamaica, was very impassioned. However, it was disingenuous of him to have made the connection between this issue and the Windrush scandal. The two are not the same; the Windrush debacle was a disgrace and involved numbers of innocent individuals being caught up and deported illegally to the Caribbean . Those who were deported today were convicted criminals who served at least 12 months in prison and crucially, they were subject to due process. Unless there is evidence to indicate that other nationals of different ethnicities and races, such as white Australians, have not been subject to the same level of enforcement of this policy , he is wrong to label it as a racist move by the government.

It does happen in other countries

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/12/british-citizen-in-australia-for-50-of-51-years-faces-deportation-for-scrub-fire

We are getting citizens who have committed crimes and who have lived abroad since they were children returned to us because the country they have lived in don't want them there.

It's not going to be easy for anyone to start a new life in a country they hardly know without any resources.

I can also see that some people just want to get rid of people who have committed a crime.

There are many sides to this discussion.

I have worked in immigration removal centres @SaltLampBae there are very many white people in them. American, Australian, White Africans, Russians. Yes they are predominantly black, but mostly because we joined the EU and so it is more difficult to return them.

It can take years for the process of removal to take place, people can only be in an actual detention centre if they are likely to be removed shortly. That is why they are out having families, not because all of a sudden the Home Office decided to remove them. They would have been informed of the intention to remove that when they left prison. They chose to have families knowing that.

That said it is heartbreaking to see and I think only the worst offenders should be removed. After all aren't our prisons meant to rehabilitate them? Why bother paying for the rehabilitation if you don't then come to the natural conclusion that it works and they are reformed.

AlanRickmanFanClub Well said. Why block up our already crammed jails too. Tough if they don't see their families. They should've thought about that before they committed the crime. Good ol Boris.

An article in the newspaper today shares that the Home Office have made it harder since 2006 to register citizenship for children due to the requirement of character references that are vague in their requirements. The author of the article argues that ‘they are applied disproportionately against BME people because of well-documented racial biases in the criminal justice system.

The author of the article says they work for the the Runnymede Trust and through their work with the Project for Registration of Children as British Citizens (PRCBC), they ‘“know of more than 500 children (either born or raised here since childhood) who have been denied citizenship because they have failed “good character” requirements due to some contact with the criminal justice system in their childhood.”

So the pp above who said why didn’t these people get British citizenship this could be a reason.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/11/britain-deports-people-racialised-system-citizenship?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Lammy sees racism everywhere it's not even that hard to find, he has a real problem with white people.

He has such a problem with white people he married one!

Should every foreign criminal be deported if they have committed a crime?

Even if they have lived in the UK for most of their life?

Here's a story:

A woman - a drug addict. Lived in Australia most of her life.
Mother of 5.
Made some bad choices in life - and has a conviction for killing her stepfather. Her stepfather had been abusive to her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-36318954

Sometimes things aren't black and white, are they?

Rolf Harris is Australian. We sent him back in ..... oh wait....

@Whyhaveidonethis

"It can take years for the process of removal to take place, people can only be in an actual detention centre if they are likely to be removed shortly. That is why they are out having families, not because all of a sudden the Home Office decided to remove them. They would have been informed of the intention to remove that when they left prison. They chose to have families knowing that."

Exactly - they knew they were likely to be deported, and they probably thought that having children would make it harder to deport them, due to protection under the Human Rights Act. They were playing the system, but it backfired on them. I'm sorry for the innocent children they have left behind, but in the main my sympathies lie with the victims of these violent offenders.

I listened to him on the radio. I found his arguments logical and reasonable. He seemed to me, to accept the case for deportation when rules are applied fairly. But he was rightly angry about many aspects of the current deportation situation.
I was disturbed about the case of the young man who has been here since the age of 5.

Some posters on here seem to be happy to paint all those who are in the group of 50 Jamaicans due to deported as one homogenous group of violent offenders when there was a mix of ages, nature of criminal offences and duration of living in the UK.

I personally can’t support a policy that includes deporting people who have lived here since a very young age and committed one offence.

Thank you Davespecifico. May I ask which radio programme Lammy was interviewed on? I would like to listen to it.

I don't agree with DL on everything but he's right, many of these people only know their lives in Britain. This government is shambles.

So they're deporting foreign nationals who have been convicted of a crime

I'm not seeing the issue with this.

Presumably they all had the opportunity to a) become a naturalised Briton and or b) not be a criminal

@Heresme - good to know Lammy hates his own wife. Well according to you...

@SimonJT - I am sorry to hear what happened to you and your friend.
The British 'justice' system is broken. I agree with your points.

I don't understand the vitriole directed towards David Lammy. He doesn't always get it right but as far as I am concerned he is passionate and speaks from the heart.

The Government needs to review this policy. It may not necessarily be racist but in many of the highlighted cases it seems unfair and needs to be seriously reconsidered.

Most foreign deportations are sent to the EU. When did Lammy complain about them?

Where was Lammy when LABOUR passed the law to deport these foreign criminals. Who is standing up for the victims of these child rapists, murderers, drug dealers?

What is wrong with a country that cares more about serious criminals rather than the rule of law and the victims of horrific crimes.

@Chocpear and @Davespecifico ,

I agree with your posts too.

"Mist foreign deportations are sent to the EU", not statistically true but EU migrants who have not lived here long are sent back to their home countries if deported.

Lammy is dreadful because he rightly points out racism and injustice where it is shown to be, and in most cases is absolutely on the money, and it makes MN uncomfortable.

"Who is standing up for the victims" appeal to emotion fail. Many, if not all, of these people supposedly being deported have lived in the UK almost all of their adults lives and had right to remain. Many have been convicted of crimes a long time ago and never reoffended and have built lives here.

Some may have been dangerous offenders, but not all.

But when Rolf Harris is not on a plane home (sex offender, not a UK national, sentenced to more than 12 months in prison) we can conclude that there are structural reasons why Jamaican nationals are being sent home.

The reason it links to the Windrush btw is the idea that we wait till the report is out before continuing to deport people.

But nah MN will say its not racist. It is and if you deny it so are you

Betsy Fremantle is not black!

Nigel Farage has displayed xenophobia towards Europeans in his comments.

Please provide evidence of Lammy being racist.

I agree with david lammy.

The system is racist from top to bottom. Its immoral to send people 'back' when they've only ever known the uk as their home and have their families here.

Oh and Farage divorced his German wife, but now has a French girlfriend. Hasn't stopped him making nasty remarks about other nationalities or immigrants in general.

Ian Duncan Smith is married to a black lady

No he is not!

DL is correct. The home office is deporting these people purely for publicity reasons. As said above, in some circumstances it may be perfectly reasonable. When it's done years after people committed the crime and have rebuilt their lives, it's doneto appeal to a certain sector of the voting public.