David Lammy and Jamaican deportees

[Myohmy111]

David Lammy’s speech, in which he is critical of the government’s decision to deport convicted offenders to Jamaica, was very impassioned. However, it was disingenuous of him to have made the connection between this issue and the Windrush scandal. The two are not the same; the Windrush debacle was a disgrace and involved numbers of innocent individuals being caught up and deported illegally to the Caribbean . Those who were deported today were convicted criminals who served at least 12 months in prison and crucially, they were subject to due process. Unless there is evidence to indicate that other nationals of different ethnicities and races, such as white Australians, have not been subject to the same level of enforcement of this policy , he is wrong to label it as a racist move by the government.

The far left just doesn’t get it - most people’s attitude to the deportation of foreign nationals who commit crimes here is “good riddance”.

I think this is an important point. It reminds me of when Diane Abbott disagreed with the police cars bumping thieves off their motorbikes to arrest them, in case the thieves got injured. Your average voter was delighted that thieves fleeing on motorbikes could now be caught. Especially voters living in higher crime areas, which tend to be poorer and traditionally Labour voting. The Labour party seem increasingly out of step with the concerns of their working class (ex) voters. Of course they can campaign and try to change public opinion, but I think they are very far off where your average voter is on this topic.

Removal of people after a prison sentence can take years of legal wrangling. Hence why people weren't removed straight after their sentence.
Rolf Harris is a British Citizen via his parents so can't be deported (you can strip of citizenship for some crimes only like terrorism).
I think this commonly happens, it's not a new thing, but it may be more commonly acted upon with new government.

It’s crappy
They are British , and we can’t just send every non-white-Caucasian British criminal to a remote island they Haven't seen since they were a baby . It’s a ridiculous racist policy . I can see the justification when someone arrived here as an adult Immigrant

But this does smack of wind rush

@HopelesslydevotedtoGu The general public has little to no morales is all each of these stories prove. I don’t believe in an eye for an eye, just because someone has been accused of stealing something doesn’t mean that they should be subject to another thing which could injure them or kill them. They should be caught and go through the justice system but not by any means necessary.

I'd be willing to bet the majority of people agree with deportations of criminals of any colour and won't be particularly interested in their race / nationality. They'll just be glad that a government is finally taking a stronger stance on deporting people who break the law

These people have been punished.

Do you think the people who support the policy of deporting anyone who has committed a crime to a foreign country - just because they happened to be born there but may have lived all their life in the UK?

Maybe there should be a difference between people who were born abroad but made an active choice as an adult to come to the UK vs someone who came here as a child and then committed a crime?

I agree chom

I dont really care about someone who comes here in their twenties commits a crime and is then deported

I think it should be done case by case and the age that they came to the uk and the severity of the crime taken into account

I think thats were most people i know would agree

The Labour party seem increasingly out of step with the concerns of their working class (ex) voters. Of course they can campaign and try to change public opinion, but I think they are very far off where your average voter is on this topi

Sometimes standing up for people's rights and asking difficult questions can be unpopular.

It doesn't mean that people shouldn't try to do it - even if it is unpopular.

If we did what the 'average voter' wanted - we'd probably have massively long jaii sentences for minor crimes and the death penalty.

chom

We would definitely have the death penalty back

I think it should be done case by case and the age that they came to the uk and the severity of the crime taken into account

I bet the average voter would agree with that.

But the debate hasn't been framed that way by the Government and the media

But the debate hasn't been framed that way by the Government and the media

Absolutely

chomalungma

Do you understand what citizenship is? Citizens cannot be deported, non-citizens can. It’s very simple, and it’s the law in almost every country in the world.

So if someone has lived in this country a long time, why are they not British citizens.

Nobody British is being sent back to their own country.

Can people stop bring up the Rolf Harris argument.
Its been answered many times on this thread that he is a British citizen by descent (parents) and therefore cannot be stripped of his citizenship and deported.

And whilst we are at it, its not remotely comparable to Windrush, who were innocent, whereas these people have all been convicted of some sort of crime worthy of at least 12 months in prison (but not all served their full sentence)

That's why you don't hear of them. They don't meet the criteria for the issue here.

deportations of EU nationals don't make it to the British press, but in their home countries they are well known.

Many Jamaicans are British citizens by decent then, Jamaica only gained independence in 1962.

It is comparable to Windrush, because people are being sent "home " to places they haven't seen since childhood, and many didn't even grow up in. Just like Windrush so its comparable

You don't have many EU nationals that have been here for decades being sent home years after they have served their sentences.

You don't have many EU nationals that have been here for decades being sent home years after they have served their sentences.

That will be coming in the near future. There are already plenty of people who can't get their documents for Settled Status in order - i.e. came here as kids, and parents didn't really bother with paperwork.
Also there those with convictions from their home countries - i.e. avoiding conscription is a crime, and will count as a criminal record.

Much has been said about black people who have committed crimes getting harsher sentences than whiotes who have committed the same crime. Is this proven by facts?

Equally given that the UK population is around 84% white and 16% non white is this reflected in the races of those who are idenitified as committing a crime? I read that yes, with the exception of gang-grooming yes, crimes are proportional, but there may be some on here who can prove or disprove this.

There is no question that fear of crime is much higher that risk of being a victim, but.....

Yes, avoiding conscription is another of those crimes that only happens to certain demographics.

We can't all afford Doctors that will say we have bone spurs.

I agree with you OP. Whether or not you agree with the deportation of nonBritish criminals, it is not a racist policy as it is applied irrespective of race.
I also agree it should not be compared to Windrush because those were innocent people who had committed no crime whatsoever and had merely decided to stay on indefinite leave to remain and not acquire British citizenship.

What is not often mentioned is that most deportations include a 10yr to lifetime ban on coming back to the U.K. under a visa.

I personally think if a nonBritish person commits a crime and goes to prison, they should not even serve their sentence in the UK but be sent to a prison in their home country. It should be automatic.

I personally think if a nonBritish person commits a crime and goes to prison, they should not even serve their sentence in the UK but be sent to a prison in their home country. It should be automatic

Do you think that someone who came to the UK as a child, grew up in the UK attended the UK education system should be deported to a country that they have never known except as a young child for committing exactly the same crime as their friend who grew up under the same conditions but had British parents?

I can imagine that there will be many children of EU parents who have settled status who will be at risk of deportation in the future because of this policy in the future.

Those people who are your neighbours, who commit a crime - and yet appear as British as anyone else - will suddenly be deported to a country they have never known because they are legally not British citizens.

I wonder at what point someone will say "But that's not fair".

@CendrillonSings

Do you think it's morally right to send someone back to a country they left as a baby because they committed a crime in the UK - a country they have grown up in, gone through the education system etc?

Or do you think they are foreign criminals who should all be deported?

So if someone has lived in this country a long time, why are they not British citizens

@Seetheprettysnowdrops

It can cost a lot of money to apply for citizenship - the current fee is £1330

www.gov.uk/government/publications/fees-for-citizenship-applications

I guess some people don't think about applying for it, can't afford to apply for it or can't navigate the system.

Until it's too late.

Do you think it's morally right to send someone back to a country they left as a baby because they committed a crime in the UK - a country they have grown up in, gone through the education system etc?

I see you still don’t understand what citizenship is.