David Lammy and Jamaican deportees

[Myohmy111]

David Lammy’s speech, in which he is critical of the government’s decision to deport convicted offenders to Jamaica, was very impassioned. However, it was disingenuous of him to have made the connection between this issue and the Windrush scandal. The two are not the same; the Windrush debacle was a disgrace and involved numbers of innocent individuals being caught up and deported illegally to the Caribbean . Those who were deported today were convicted criminals who served at least 12 months in prison and crucially, they were subject to due process. Unless there is evidence to indicate that other nationals of different ethnicities and races, such as white Australians, have not been subject to the same level of enforcement of this policy , he is wrong to label it as a racist move by the government.

The driving offence was awful, he admits it was wrong. But deportation and separation from his father and siblings?

This wasn't a speeding ticket, people keep saying it's a just a driving offence, a car is a lethal weapon and he could have killed multiple people.

Also chevon brown has been in the UK since he was 14 he is now 23 so no most of his life wasn't spent in this country, also he was already seperated from his family as had been taken into care not long after arriving.

You are focused on the specific. In general what do you think of the policy that any foreign criminal regardless of age they came to the UK be deported

Article on what's happening to people who have been deported

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/14/jamaicans-deported-by-home-office-go-into-hiding-fearing-for-lives

You are focused on the specific. In general what do you think of the policy that any foreign criminal regardless of age they came to the UK be deported*

They should be deported the age and race is irrelevant, unless you are a British citizen it's that simple.

Moat criminals are scum, a lot of people have this notion that they are lovable harmless vagabonds.

Moat criminals are scum, a lot of people have this notion that they are lovable harmless vagabonds

Where did you get that idea from?

Some people think that it's immoral to deport someone who has lived in this country as a baby, lived here for most of their life, been brought up in the UK as a British person and committed a crime in the UK.

It is possible to separate from the crime from the criminal. Regardless of what you think of the crime, it does seem immoral to deport someone back to a country they might not even remember just because they are not a British citizen.

Moat criminals are scum, a lot of people have this notion that they are lovable harmless vagabonds

Well I dont think that but I do think society feels there are crimes and crimes - and criminals and those who make "unfortunate errors of judgement"

For example, driving offenses, paying for sex, sexual assault, snorting cocaine , fraud and tax evasion are commonly practised across the upper echelons of society (including our own, dear MPs) and hardly anyone has a problem with that.

There is a old saying don't do he crime if you can't do the crime. Don't bring morality into this the criminals didn't have morality when they commited it.
Ho about if they commited a crime against you of your family would you feel the same.

Regardless of what you think of the crime, it does seem immoral to deport someone back to a country they might not even remember just because they are not a British citizen.

Only to inveterate hand-wringing lefties. No one else cares.

I think that there is a large majority of the population who would happily deport all criminals convicted of a serious crime to Mars.
The fact that it’s only foreign nationals that this is impacting is because it’s not legal to do it to everyone else convicted of a similar offence.

Only to inveterate hand-wringing lefties

Now you’re just being silly

Morality is important. It was hand wringing do gooders who brought about prison reform in the first place. If a society loses its moral compass - and yes, that does include how it treats criminals, then that is not good for society.

I just wish that hand-wringers gave even 1% of their time and energy to the rights of law-abiding citizens and victims of crime as they do to the criminals who prey on them.

Fat chance of that.

Do you think that the criminals have been punished for their crime by serving their time in jail?

Do you think there is some benefit to the British public is keeping convicted criminals among them if we don’t have to?

I think that criminals have rights as well. I know that may sound controversial but I think that it is wrong to deport someone who has been brought up in the UK and has lived in a society as the rest of us have.

Actually I do think it benefits society if we treat people who have committed crimes as human beings instead of objects to be disposed of.

We can’t just throw people away when we find some excuse in a deep section of hidden citizenship laws

These aren’t Albanian drug lords , we
Bought them up . Educated them . Their parents were invited here and contributed to society for many years
Putting aside citizenship and morality the impact on society and already fractured race relations post brexit is going be disastrous

I feel so strongly this is wrong

We can’t just throw people away when we find some excuse in a deep section of hidden citizenship laws

It’s not in a deep section, it’s not hidden, and it’s a normal part of the law the world over.

we Brought them up . Educated them.

And they repaid us by committing crimes against us. You’re making my argument for me.

Perhaps the solution is for the UK to deport all serious crims to one of its remaining colonies. St Helena perhaps, or Ascension Island.

Just like it used to do with Australia and, ironically, Jamaica.

I assume all those in favour of deportation are OK with that?

One benefit is not creating more resentful broken families whose kids are more likely to go off the rails in future.

I generally like David Lammy but I think he was wrong to link these deportations to WindRush scandal. Very different set of problems, in my mind.

And they repaid us by committing crimes against us. You’re making my argument for me.

It could be argued that the system they were brought up in and the socail conditions might have played a role in leading to them committing a crime.

It could be argued that the system they were brought up in and the socail conditions might have played a role in leading to them committing a crime.

I’m guessing personal responsibility simply doesn’t exist in your world? Everything is our fault? I’ll make the point again - the public had a prime opportunity to choose a hand-wringing approach to law and justice in December. It lost - in a landslide. Perhaps that might give you a hint?

I’m guessing personal responsibility simply doesn’t exist in your world? Everything is our fault

That's a very binary view of things. The causes of crime are very complicated.

It’s as if the Guardian designed an experimental chat bot. Wake up and enter the real world.