To think you should carry your child?

[ClaudiaWankleman]

Parents with small children who insist on letting them try to walk up the stairs on the tube/ train/ other busy public areas.

It inevitably creates a tight bottleneck at an area a bottleneck is already going to form. We all have to squeeze into 2/3 of the space while you lead a wobbling toddler up some stairs that are way too advanced for them.

Not only is it horrendously dirty when they sit down on the third step before you heave them back up (always happens) it seems quite dangerous. There is always the chance that someone will accidentally trample them as it’s quite difficult to see in the restricted spaces.

Not least that if I had been able to get up the stairs 15 seconds quicker I would’ve been on my train instead of having to wait for the next one.

AIBU to think that you should carry your child?

Probably when it’s busy isn’t the best time but on the other hand my dd is 4 and great at navigating busy subway stations etc and a pro on the escalators because I didn’t have any choice but to let her walk when I was carrying bags. It’s all one saying carry your kid but you might not be physically able to.

It’s kind of horrible how people consider children in public to be inconveniences. It doesn’t matter where it is, someone will moan about a kid.

@my2bundles I do teach him consideration of others and safety awareness, however maybe my idea and yours of an OK environment differ. I don't see a problem with him walking up some steps in a subway, he keeps to the banister and I walk behind him.
I also model considerate behaviour to others, can people preaching children should get out of their way because they are adults say the same? It can be quite difficult to teach these positive behaviours to children when the majority of society are not exhibiting them. But I've done OK so far. He certainly understands the art of patience. I wonder if the OP and those agreeing with her can say the same?

@ThePlantsitter

I just think a bit of patience is actually preferable all round - for your health as well as the wellbeing of a kid just learning to negotiate its surroundings.

I think child safety is paramount here rather than the annoying parent, and for that reason I tend to agree with the OP.

Your suggestion of patience is completely redundant here, because in a bottleneck situation, you would not be able to ensure that everyone is patient with the parent and child, so to advise this to OP is condescending and as I said, redundant.

There's a time and place for everything... Mostly YANBU. Tube stations tend to get busy in "waves" - there's always a rush of people when a train arrives and then it slows down a bit again when that lot of people has left the platform.

Missing your tube by 15 seconds doesn't sounds like the worst catastrophe either though as most of the time the next train is just 3-5 minutes away anyway, the London Underground is not like mainline trains in many parts of the country where you get one or two trains an hour if that...

All this business about toddlers having every 'right' to be on the stairs as well as commuters... of course. Absolutely they do.

Parents, kids, people with disabilities, people on their mobiles, all have the right to be there.

And with rights come responsibilities – to consider the rest of the people using the space and behave accordingly.

Of course some parents don't have much of a choice in situations like this. Everyone's different, and there are always exceptions to the rules.

But a lot of parents do have the choice, and choose to exercise their 'rights' without considering their responsibilities to everyone else.

And as for those toddlers learning to walk in these incredible cities where there are NO quiet places and no other options to stretch their legs (not sure where these cities are, but I'll take your words for it)... if they live in such a neverending barnstormer of chaos, then part of learning to walk for them will also mean learning to consider other people and stop / stand to the side / be carried once in a blue moon.

OP, YABU if you think it's the case 100% of the time, but YANBU if you think some people are spectacularly blinkered when it comes to their sense of "it's a free country, I'll do whatever I want".

@vikkimoog

You think it's safer to carry a 3 year old up a very steep escalator than have them stood next to you holding your hand?
YABU. Have a bit of tolerance

Have you even read the OP? OP’s talking about stairs, not escalators. Why would anyone advocate carrying a child up the escalator when they can safely stand in front of their parent on the right side?

The next train was in 8 minutes. I appreciate that isn’t a huge delay but it was bloody cold this morning!

Rudeness is huffing and puffing and having an attitude that says your punctuality is more important than their existence.

It is. Rush hour is called this for a reason.

You are lucky if people stick to huffing and puffing, I have seen a few not scared of shoving people out of their way!

Why is it the parent and toddler’s fault, rather than the people coming down 2 abreast? If people usually walked in single file, there would be space to overtake if someone is slower than average for whatever reason.

For what it’s worth, I have a hidden disability and usually get my toddler to walk. I follow behind and take her right hand in my right hand, left hands on the rail. (Or vice versa if we’re walking on the right) if we’re going down, I tend to do a sort of sideways step so I can hold the rail and her hand while she follows me. Far less risky, and quicker, than me attempting to carry her!

Due to a disability I haven't been able to pick up my children since they were about 6 months old. They had to walk from an early age when not in pushchair. You generally wouldn't know to look at me.

@my2bundles you’ve never taken my grandad out he has the ability to get lost in an empty room haha!! on a serious note though I do agree that you can’t see a 2 year old in a crowded station and it would probably make me on edge walking round a tube station with a young toddler to be honest.

Ah I have to travel through London as OTT of a 5 hour train journey with 2 2 year olds next week. I won’t be carrying them, I physically can’t carry both and our luggage. This thread has caused me some worry!!

For the record I'm in my late 20s and look very physically fit and able. What you can't see is my heart condition. What you don't know is that my child was over 10ib at birth and has carried on with that trajectory. He is the size of a 4-5year old and just as heavy. You don't know about the resultant back and pelvis problems I've had. I could probably carry him up a flight of steps, although not if I had anything else to carry, but I'd have to stop right at the top or risk dropping him. All the way up the steps I would be having dizzy spells, my back, hips and shoulders would be burning and my legs would get wobbly (that's what happens when insufficient oxygen gets around your body ref. heart condition).
It's actually safer for both me and ds for him to walk up the stairs (probably why he's so well practiced) and I'm sure I'd cause more of a hold up were I to fall while holding my kid, or lose consciousness in the middle of the stairs or whatever.

I'm not going to take that risk for anyone's convenience even mine. I bet I've missed more travel connections than the majority of ye poor inconvenienced by having to move at a child's speed.
And based on my experiences of metros it is almost impossible for me to manage a buggy with my 2 year old in it (barriers being too narrow, no lifts to certain platforms, stairs stairs everywhere.

So basically what I'm trying to say is suck it up! You don't have more of a right to use a staircase for its intended purpose than me and my child.
Have a little compassion instead of focusing on your own little inconveniences!

I wouldn't take the tube with 2 kids and luggage at rush hours to be honest.

My ABSOLUTE FAVOURITE is when there is a long queue to pay for car parking at the machine in a car park, and parent picks toddler up so they can drop endless coins on the floor, jab at the slot and miss at a ratio of 10:1 and fumble slowly though the coinage in their sticky paws for the correct coin whilst parent says "Well Done Yes - that's a pound" ...'do the money'.

TLDR

If 15 seconds is the difference between making a train and having to wait for the next one, you need to look at your time management skills.

Or perhaps leave the house 1 and a half minutes, maybe 2, earlier.

And like I said on busy train stations people are always going to be rushing to catch connecting trains. No amount of planning g or thinking ahead can change your first train being delayed into the station. Parents need to take responsibility for their in toddlers not expect everyone else to plan around them, for god sake.

Equally, It’s not the toddler’s fault that your train was delayed.

Why do you expect parents and toddlers to plan around you?

For all you know, said parent may have back problems, which prevents them from carrying the child.

I'm more annoyed by people walking and looking at their phones.

And it wasn't the child that prevented you from catching the train, it was mainly the bus being late. Unless the bus was also 15 sec late, in which case, you should leave earlier. Shit happens.

If I was unable for any reason to carry one of my toddlers on stairs, they would be immediately in front of me on the way up and immediately behind me on the way down, up against the solid side of the stairs, not bimbling out into the middle and being at risk of being pushed or accidentally walked into by anyone.

This was so that if they fell, they would land on/against me rather than falling down four or five steps, possibly cutting open their face or scalp and bleeding like a stuck pig all over everything. You only need to have had that happen once to want it never to happen again -- head wounds bleed horrendously even if they are tiny and turn out to be not really anything to worry about. I know that mostly small children bounce and then scream a lot from outrage not actual pain, but it would be just typical that the one time a child didn't was miles from home and me without anything to mop them up with. Not to mention that taking them to an A&E if one existed within thirty miles of us would delay me a lot more than being careful would.

I agree with you OP. The only caveat is that if a two year old insists on walking you cannot carry them safely as they will wriggle around, punch, kick, scream, make a huge tantrum until you put them down and let them walk or climb stairs like a big person. So often, what you see is a parent humouring the toddler and letting them attempt it until they get tired in order to avoid the tantrum of a child who does not want to be carried.

The next train was in 8 minutes. I appreciate that isn’t a huge delay but it was bloody cold this morning!
FFS

YANBU. I’m a mum myself but hate it when other parents seemingly don’t care about others and let their DC as you describe or as I saw yesterday, making it nearly impossible for me to leave a parking area because their pram blocked a part of the road and I nearly had to hit another car to get past them. Yes, children are lovely and they and their parents deserve some consideration from the public but that’s a two way street. Don’t be a nuisace to others if you can easily avoid it.

Love poppy I don't expect mothers and toddlers to plan around me, I do expect them to have consideration for everyone else tho.

If you missed your train by 15 seconds, that’s your fault. You need to leave a bit of leeway.