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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask if you are worried about the new coronavirus? - continued

999 replies

IvyBush123 · 10/02/2020 19:29

Here is the old thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3813759-AIBU-to-ask-you-if-you-are-worried-about-the-new-Coronavirus?pg=40

Here is a twitter video from Wuhan I want to share because it so heartbreaking. People happily celebrating shortly before it became known that there was a virus outbreak. There already were some rumors but people didn’t believe them:
twitter.com/WLaowai8/status/1225637845508837377

@Yourtunbridgewells: The info you are sharing (472000 deaths in the UK) is very scary. Is this a worst case scenario.

@justdeckingthehalls: Epidemiologist Eric Feigl-Ding writes that it is airborne on twitter: twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1226236552059260928
N95 masks help against airborne transmission don’t they?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
RedToothBrush · 15/02/2020 09:19

It's something that requires long term education and training. An emergency panicked response isn't going to change behaviours to best practice because it's about attitudes to life and habitual patterns.

ofwarren · 15/02/2020 09:24

You will probably find that those who are already concerned will change their behaviour far more than those who currently are more relaxed about it due to different psychology.
This is very, very true. You can see this on Mumsnet. Those of us who are already careful are ramping up our actions and those who don't really consider those things will 'possibly' wash their hands a bit more.
I can't ever imagine my parents taking a hand gel out with them for example. It's just not in their thought processes, to consider the impact of virus transmission. I didn't visit them at home for the first 2 years after my son's transplant as they don't even wash their hands after the bathroom 😱

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2020 09:28

Do we know for sure ( guessing not ) that the virus isn't spread through the air ?

They keep saying it's not.

We don't know.

We do know that a quarantine officer wearing a mask and gloves (but not googled) handing out questionnaires caught it. We don't know how.

We do know the crew are in shared cabins and are bringing food etc to those on board, so there's always potential for contamination there.

This is worrying, as in most cases these people wouldn't have even been tested for the virus.

I think the figure that's being suggested by experts is that for every diagnosed case in the UK they think there are at least 3 or 4 walking around who we don't know about.

The new cases popping up in Japan (not on board the ship) with no contact history are lending themselves to this idea too.

On the plus side it suggests the death rate and serious case rate might be much lower than has previously been stated but it also means that a pandemic is all but inevitable at this stage.

I think I'm fairly on board with this now. It's how it plays out and how the government and public deal with that are really my concern.

I think I'm glad I live in the UK not US though.

lakequeen · 15/02/2020 09:29

'But experts have shared new findings that give cause for hope. Unlike the pathogen of the respiratory disease SARS, Covid-19 pathogens don't only reproduce in the lungs, but also in the back of the throat, like flu viruses. That's why the new coronaviruses are able to spread more easily than the SARS pathogens, but it's also why they're less deadly, according to Christian Drosten, the director of the Institute of Virology at Berlin's Charite hospital. "For most people, it's probably more like the common cold, and children are seldom affected."'

Good article - not too gloomy...

www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-coronavirus-has-likely-already-spread-globally-a-f0c171b4-ed60-46ac-ae5b-5473cb49e806

woodchuck99 · 15/02/2020 09:39

You will probably find that those who are already concerned will change their behaviour far more than those who currently are more relaxed about it due to different psychology.

I agree. Unfortunately, much of the general public are completely clueless about hygiene and combined with the fact they perceive concern and changing behaviour as an example of "panicking",I think a lot has to be done to educate them. I don't have to be worried to be hygienic because it is now second nature but in general I think people need to get a lot more concerned in order to change their habits.

woodchuck99 · 15/02/2020 09:44

How do you do that with a child under the age of 6?

Even with younger children you can take some steps. For example, with swine flu my children's primary school discussed hygiene with them, made sure they wash their hands when coming in from the playground and used hand gel before eating. I think mainly though it would help if parents didn't send their children to school when they weren't that well and if schools stop sending letters to parents who keep their children at home when ill

Mittens030869 · 15/02/2020 09:45

On the plus side it suggests the death rate and serious case rate might be much lower than has previously been stated but it also means that a pandemic is all but inevitable at this stage.

This is how it's been in the past, it's how it was with bird flu and then swine flu. (I caught it, though, and it was pretty damned unpleasant.)

It will be dangerous for those of us with added health complications, as I said earlier, as obviously there's no vaccine as yet. So once there are confirmed cases here, the DDs and I won't be going to church; we go to a church with 800 people attending, just the place where germs can spread.

I think the problem is the general lack of awareness about flu in general. It's seen as just being a bad cold but it really isn't and there are a lot of deaths from it every year. (As I said earlier, my bad flu turned into pneumonia earlier this year.). Hence the comments about corona virus being 'just flu'.

WaterSheep · 15/02/2020 09:58

Tokyo metropolitan government officials say eight more people have been confirmed to be infected with the new coronavirus. The officials say seven of the eight came into close contact with a taxi driver who was found to be infected with the virus on Thursday.

Yet the UK Uber driver is considered low risk.

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2020 10:13

I think mainly though it would help if parents didn't send their children to school when they weren't that well and if schools stop sending letters to parents who keep their children at home when ill

Still doesn't solve the childcare problem it produces though. Lots of people can't afford unpaid leave nor will employers allow it. And this is particularly so for some small businesses and the self employed.

There's no enough slack in the system to accommodate this. Nor do people have support from extended family locally which they might have had in the past.

Keeping kids off school for longer will also be disproportionately the burden of women (and single parents in general). And this will hit jobs which predominantly have female workers.

Like... nurses... and carers.

The issue here is our entire system of society is based on people just getting on with things if the have a common cold. You are not going to be able to restructure this in a few weeks in response to an emergency and politically and economically this isn't a priority (especially when you consider that more nurses is a current top political priority)

I'm not sure if it's realistic even if there was political will for a lot of people too. If you have an immune system which is weaker would it mean you were stigmatised - could this mean it harder to get a job for example ? Remembering we are entering an age where our health records are being sold by stealth to various data companies (see example of health records going to a phone company supposedly to help over depression and how questionable this is).

And economically what support would there be for self employed and small businesses owners?

I don't know what the solution is. It's all very well saying these things about how we should be doing x, y and z but paying no attention or passing no comment about just how far reaching the implications and consequences of changing that are entrenched and how the burden of those changes will be disproportionately spread.

It's idealistic pie in the sky nonsense.

The reality to a certain extent is that we have a society where mild ill health is accepted as normal. The problems are really not about that, but really about our lack of response ability to crisis and the lack of resources to support that. That's about planning, investment and research at state level. Something that's been massively stripped in the last 12 years.

Anyway I'll park this incoherent ramble at that. I just want people to think things through and identify the real structural failures here rather than coming up with almost virtue signalling comments about what we should all be doing. How about considering the real barriers about why that's not feasible or straightforward at the same time.

I think this is why I'm fairly resigned to the course of things, because frustratingly when it comes down to it there's so many restrictions on what you do on a practical level. It's almost as if we are already locked into events. And have been for years.

WaterSheep · 15/02/2020 10:16

There's been a death in France.

An 80-year-old Chinese tourist suffering from coronavirus has died, announced Health Minister Agnès Buzyn

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2020 10:23

Pippa Crerar@pippacrerar
No 10 wants to increase spending on NHS, social care, transport infrastructure.

They also want to cut taxes & pay down debt. But they can’t do both.

This is what new No 10/11 economic unit is really about. There’s a masssive battle ahead over direction of Tory party.

Eyes on this.

Especially at the same time as Brexit.

Especially as a hard Brexit with more trade barriers.

It's not tenable.

woodchuck99 · 15/02/2020 10:29

Still doesn't solve the childcare problem it produces though. Lots of people can't afford unpaid leave nor will employers allow it. And this is particularly so for some small businesses and the self employed.

Many employers need to change the attitude too. They often could be more flexible by allowing people to work at home or to make up their time on other days. I appreciate that this isn't true in every single case but this is a situation where they really need to change attitude if possible.

PlomBear · 15/02/2020 10:39

I did my nursing dissertation on handwashing with soap vs hand gels. It may have been a decade ago but I don’t think that hand gels are effective in killing viruses or cleaning visibly soiled hands. The hand gels are not effective on norovirus for example.

woodchuck99 · 15/02/2020 10:40

Anyway I'll park this incoherent ramble at that. I just want people to think things through and identify the real structural failures here rather than coming up with almost virtue signalling comments about what we should all be doing. How about considering the real barriers about why that's not feasible or straightforward at the same time.

They aren't virtue signalling comments from me. I have suffered from ill health and disability for many years and I totally disagree that changes are not feasible or straightforward. I made them because I have to and I know that many people could do the same but they just don't want to. I agree that sometimes it is impossible for people to take time off work or work from home or restructure their hours but that is often due to inflexible employers rather than anything else. Many companies including mine already do have quite a flexible attitude towards working at home, rearranging days etc when necessary and I have seen that it works . Whilst not all can do that a lot can but just don't want to add the moment.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 15/02/2020 10:41

I was at hospital yesterday, through the front door of A and E and a nurse took me through various areas to Majors - I have an horrific sounding cough (chronic illness, usually do, I know what it is but still...) without even questioning me, and looked surprised when I stopped to use hand gel. It was packed. I sat in Majors with lots of other people for very much longer than 15 minutes.

On packed public transport conversely, I thought I was going to be tarrred and feathered by peoples' reactions to my cough (I am extremely conscious of hygiene and catching and disposing of clean tissues each time) but in hospital it wasn't even blinked at (not blaming the staff at all, Friday night in A and E was hell on earth).

I really wouldn't be leaving the house at the moment unless I absolutely had to, not just germs and for my own sake, but I was genuinely scared by people's reactions to me and can imagine if the situation deteriorates that people perceived to be ill will get a lot of abuse.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 15/02/2020 10:44

I actually wondered if wearing a mask would have been more reassuring to others, or worse. (I can totally understand their fear, I know I have another condition but they don't, I do look and sound like Patient Zero, but there are a very very few occasions people like me have to go out and yesterday was one of them and couldn't be avoided)

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2020 10:47

can imagine if the situation deteriorates that people perceived to be ill will get a lot of abuse.

Fully expecting it.

That's why I'm glad I'm not in the US.

At least in the UK people will generally keep distance if worried. In the US... Well the culture is a bit different and fear does odd things to people...

woodchuck99 · 15/02/2020 10:48

I actually wondered if wearing a mask would have been more reassuring to others, or worse.

It reassures me that I'm not sure about others. Maybe it would help if you just announce that is to it is due to another condition. People have said that to me before (I look scared apparently if anyone coughs near me!).

eeeyoresmiles · 15/02/2020 10:56

It's all very well saying these things about how we should be doing x, y and z but paying no attention or passing no comment about just how far reaching the implications and consequences of changing that are entrenched

Actually, I said this:

It's clearly going to be bad for the economy, but then so is any war, and I honestly feel like that's a bit how we need to start thinking about it.

It's precisely because the consequences of the types of distancing measures we're seeing in China (and now in HK and Singapore) are so huge for the whole of society and the economy, that the 'at war' analogy makes sense to me. If we have to do these things, it will be because there is a worse threat from outside, so we'll have to do them despite all those consequences. And then we just hope it's not for too long and that we can recover well afterwards.

What interests me is what a country that is not yet in China's position should do to avoid situations like Wuhan - to slow things down. What proactive measures can we take, to avoid that type of whole city lockdown. I suspect that whatever they are, right now they'll look like an overreaction to some - but should we do them anyway? Should we take a smaller hit now, to avoid a bigger one later?

ofwarren · 15/02/2020 11:03

@Plombear the new types of hand held are effective on viruses.
Milton was one of the first ones to state that it kills norovirus

ofwarren · 15/02/2020 11:04

Gels, not held obviously

eeeyoresmiles · 15/02/2020 11:04

Although it's not really the lockdown that's the most scary thing about Wuhan, it's the hospitals there being utterly overwhelmed. Somehow we need to slow any UK outbreak down enough to give most people the chance for hospital treatment if they need it.

GorkyMcPorky · 15/02/2020 11:25

I think mainly though it would help if parents didn't send their children to school when they weren't that well and if schools stop sending letters to parents who keep their children at home when ill

What about teachers/staff? I had a really nasty cold recently (worse than my average) and took a day off but really needed three. I had glandular fever last summer but again only took a day off to try to beg for a GP appointment (has to be triaged). If I take any more it is an absolute guilt trip and I have to plan all the work anyway. I create more work for my line manager and staff who have to cover me and the school has to pay for supply. As long as you've got teachers being obliged to work when ill there's little point worrying too much about sending pupils in when they're under the weather.

Ciwirocks · 15/02/2020 11:32

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles Did no one ask you about your travel history on arrival to A&E? In our local A&E there are signs everywhere and everyone booking in is asked if they have been to the at risk areas in the past 2 weeks

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