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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask if you are worried about the new coronavirus? - continued

999 replies

IvyBush123 · 10/02/2020 19:29

Here is the old thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3813759-AIBU-to-ask-you-if-you-are-worried-about-the-new-Coronavirus?pg=40

Here is a twitter video from Wuhan I want to share because it so heartbreaking. People happily celebrating shortly before it became known that there was a virus outbreak. There already were some rumors but people didn’t believe them:
twitter.com/WLaowai8/status/1225637845508837377

@Yourtunbridgewells: The info you are sharing (472000 deaths in the UK) is very scary. Is this a worst case scenario.

@justdeckingthehalls: Epidemiologist Eric Feigl-Ding writes that it is airborne on twitter: twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1226236552059260928
N95 masks help against airborne transmission don’t they?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
woodchuck99 · 14/02/2020 14:25

What we don't know is what the death rate or complication rate will actually be in the UK as so many factors are different, even down to customs of sharing or not sharing meals from the same bowls, pollution levels and smoking rates.

We don't know what the death or complication rate will be but that is why it is important to act as if it will be high and take steps to prevent the spread. I'm not seeing many steps are being taken at the moment by most members of the public.

ofwarren · 14/02/2020 14:29

Who's panicked mittens? All I can see are posters sharing information. The more informed we are, the easier it is to plan for any disruption this may cause to our lives.
The people who will be panicking are the "I'm alright Jack" "it's only flu" types if the shit hits the fan and we end up with food shortages and inforced quarantine. I'll be sat at home with a months worth of food and medicine to tide my family over.

FourTeaFallOut · 14/02/2020 14:30

The smoking rates might be really interesting. I saw a, non peer reviewed, article suggesting that smokers have far higher levels of ace-2 receptors and therefore at greater risk.

China has the highest smoking rates in the world and we have dropped the habit quite significantly in this country over the last few decades.

I'm hoping this will be a tipping point in our favour.

Ontopofthesunset · 14/02/2020 14:33

Of course we need to take steps to prevent the spread. But that doesn't mean buying face masks so that dentists who really need them can't get them and not taking public transport, as some people are saying they are doing. It means being careful about personal hygiene, seeking medical advice if necessary and self-isolating if told to.

Even at the conference in Singapore where the UK 'superspreader' got it only 7 conference attendees, including him, caught it from the original transmitter and only one other had an onward chain of transmission (in Malaysia where 2 further people were infected). So that's why the official advice to people at the bus conference is at it is.

Jenasaurus · 14/02/2020 14:36

8 planes are on lockdown at Heathrow after each plane has a health scare on board

metro.co.uk/2020/02/14/eight-planes-put-lockdown-heathrow-coronavirus-fears-12241391/?ico=pushly-notifcation-small&utm_source=pushly

Mittens030869 · 14/02/2020 14:36

Okay, I'm not talking about this thread, I'm talking about the public at large, where there is panic. How else did my DDs become terrified? We hadn't talked to them at that stage.

The truth is that, if I let myself, I could be very scared. Because I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and earlier this year I had a bad dose of flu, which led to pneumonia. So I could easily be someone who gets seriously ill with corona virus.

I think the point is that you should never say that it's 'just flu'. There are many deaths from flu every year.

woodchuck99 · 14/02/2020 14:38

Of course we need to take steps to prevent the spread. But that doesn't mean buying face masks so that dentists who really need them can't get them and not taking public transport, as some people are saying they are doing.

Nobody on this thread who is concerned has said they have bought face masks and I haven't seen anyone wearing them apart from Chinese and Japanese and they tend to anyway quite often.

As far as public transport is concerned whether it is a risk will depend on where you live. It would be daft to avoid it if it means you can't go to work but many people can drive themselves so it won't impact their lives. I avoid public transport if there is a lot of flu going around or ago at quiet times of the a day because I'm immunosuppressed and I have noticed that many people are seriously unhygienic. There is nothing worse and being on a crowded train with someone sneezing next you are not putting even their hand over their mouth let alone a tissue or elbow.

HasaDigaEebowai · 14/02/2020 14:40

I've bought face masks. DIY ones rather than surgical ones (mainly because the surgical ones are crap)

Jenasaurus · 14/02/2020 14:41

MP that attended the Westminster conference with the other infected person is being tested

www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/10960924/coronavirus-uk-london-bus-conference-mp-alex-sobel/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

ofwarren · 14/02/2020 14:43

Public transport wise it's sensible to not use it if you don't have to, in flu season.
My immunosuppressed son had his quarterly check up at a regional hospital yesterday. It would have been a 5 hour round trip on the train. We usually do the journey and are just careful around hand hygiene. This time we paid for a private hire company to take us as we don't drive.
I still have to get the bus to college 2 days a week. It's a relatively quick journey though.

ofwarren · 14/02/2020 14:44

I have face masks but I bought them ages ago.
They were for this type of situation to be honest, so they will come in handy.

Ontopofthesunset · 14/02/2020 14:47

But at the moment, for most healthy people, avoiding public transport would be disproportionate. That might change, but right now, with 9 confirmed cases, it is an unreasonable reaction to the current situation. I can completely see why if you're immunosuppressed you would avoid public transport in the winter anyway - my husband texted me yesterday to say the train he was on was a petri dish. But really most people are still more likely to be injured in an RTA driving - as it stands. That might change.

Most people know someone who is either elderly or has underlying health conditions; my husband has asthma so is at risk and my parents are old. But I wouldn't advise them not to take the tube at the weekend. In a few weeks' time, if there are hundreds of cases in London, maybe.

halcyondays · 14/02/2020 14:53

I think if people prefer to avoid public transport, it’s up to them. It’s not harming anyone else.

Delatron · 14/02/2020 15:08

I like to avoid public transport in general at this time of year if I can help it. Also exercise outside going for runs rather than the gym I once caught really nasty flu from the gym. Germ factories.

My point is I’m not really changing my behaviour or harming anyone. I wore gloves to the supermarket yesterday. Made me feel a bit better about the trolleys. I always use my sleeve to open toilet doors.

eeeyoresmiles · 14/02/2020 15:35

I'm hoping that as simple face masks are a paper product not a million miles from sanpro in size (unlike the specialist FFP3 masks), manufacturing can catch up fast. I'm also hoping that the fact that people aren't managing to buy them on consumer websites like Boots any more might be a sign that the UK has stocks that are now being diverted away from consumers, rather than that there are no UK stocks at all. (I think until this month it wasn't unreasonable for consumers to get a few in - but not so much now). I wonder if any of the factories churning out sanpro could be diverted to make masks for some purposes? There must be some of those in the UK. Who in the government decides about requisitioning these things and how to share them out between the NHS and dentists?

On the positive side - imagine if avian flu (H5N1) had got as far as the coronavirus has. We would be looking at a truly apocalyptic scenario of 60% of the people who got it dying. So we should be grateful for the fact that Covid-19 is mild enough so far to leave 80% of people recovered and well enough to keep the country going. (And maybe one day we'll also be grateful to it for giving us a 'dry run' before some other virus jumps to humans with a mortality rate of >50%.)

MrsBethel · 14/02/2020 15:59

Well, the 'no shit Sherlock award' goes to the mirror:

Coronavirus 'could spread quickly on London Underground', experts warn
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-could-spread-quickly-london-21488343

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2020 16:05

www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/84861
Gottlieb: Keep Close Eye on Coronavirus in Singapore
How disease plays out in other countries besides China could predict pandemic, says former FDA chief

"So far, in Singapore with 50 cases identified... eight are in the ICU. That's deeply concerning to me," said Gottlieb, the former FDA commissioner and now a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, at a Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs hearing Wednesday.

Of particular importance is how many of those infected with the virus develop severe disease, he said.

And

The outbreak's advancement in Singapore during a time of warm weather (currently 80°F) is especially alarming, he said, because summer weather would ordinarily be "a backstop" against coronavirus transmission.

Gottlieb who has no formal background in public health but participated in biodefense and pandemic preparedness programs at the FDA prior to becoming commissioner said that what he's seen so far indicates that the disease may become a pandemic.

And

Gottlieb said he is worried that the novel virus could reflect a "sweet spot" between being efficient enough for quick transmission, and virulent enough over a large population "that it causes a lot of death and disease."

Mortality with the novel coronavirus has been put at about 2%, but the denominator in that calculation has been China's case counts that don't include individuals with mild infections. Yet even a "case fatality rate of 0.2 or 0.5 [percent] could be catastrophic if this is highly, highly contagious and spreads around the world," Gottlieb said.

And

Modeling from the U.K. suggests that for every identified case there are three or four that haven't been identified, he added.

And

Gerberding warned that it may not be possible to contain the novel virus, but there should be a strong focus on slowing viral spread, by making gloves and masks available, employing "social distancing," and leveraging early school closings if necessary. During the 2014-2015 Ebola outbreak in West Africa, she and other public health experts referred to this approach as the "Swiss cheese" model because none of these practices alone could prevent spread, but when layered on each other, could create solid protection.

And

One significant concern described by panelists was the lack of "surge capacity" in the U.S. healthcare system the ability to handle sudden large increases in patient loads and the absence of funding to prepare for emergencies.

And

In addition, he warned of the possibility of disruptions in medical supplies in the coming months. Hubei province is a major manufacturing center for pharmaceutical ingredients, including some used in antibiotics production -- and 80% of antibiotics used in the U.S. comes from China, he testified. Medical devices also rely heavily on Chinese components, he said.

Most of the manufacturers he's spoken with have 1 to 3 months or "a little bit more inventory" on hand, Gottlieb told MedPage Today after the hearing.

Cheerful.

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2020 16:09

BTW the Spanish flu also didn't 'slow down in april' and the close relation to COVID-19, MERS has thrived in a hot climate.

The idea that this will slow down over the summer is naive. If we have a hot summer that could add to the problems with people with fever...

HeIenaDove · 14/02/2020 16:14

Apparently the driver has not been quarantined because he wasn’t in sufficiently close contact with the patient to be at risk. So a 15 minute car ride isn’t close contact

We cant have one rule for one and another rule for somebody else. Because the public wont accept it.

We have people on zero hours contracts with no rights. Workers rights in the UK have been eroded and diminished. Are employers going to get on board with employees self isolating when/if they need to without "letting people go" Will they be paid.

Will someone on Universal Credit get a sanction if a JC appointment comes up during a 14 day self isolation period?

What this Coronavirus may well end up doing is bringing Tory policies into stark sharp focus.

lintrollerseverywhere · 14/02/2020 16:14

Not to be rude but there seem to be some on this thread who are positively gleeful with the thought that this might be a horrendous global pandemic which kills millions of people.

We have absolutely no idea which way it will go at the moment, so why speculate?

MrsBethel · 14/02/2020 16:15

We'll never know the real mortality rate, or the real R0 for that matter, as so many mild cases will not be logged.

For my money R0 in the UK is going to way higher than current estimates in China, and the mortality rate is going to be way lower than in China, simply because of the distribution of ACE-2 receptor density in the UK population. Most of us will be super spreaders.

My own back-of-a-fag-packet calculation is for maybe 30,000 UK deaths? So more than your average flu season, but not that much more.

yolofish · 14/02/2020 16:16

A man on one of the Heathrow planes has just said on Sky News (paraphrasing here):

"We were asked if we felt OK, filled in a form and sent on our way. I got a taxi home. My wife works in a GP surgery, I'm sure she'll be very concerned when she gets home."

Doesnt exactly inspire confidence...

Jenasaurus · 14/02/2020 16:30

This is interesting, its from 2013 when we were fighting another Coronavirus. His prediction is quite worrying, when you compare the similarity's between the symptoms , both result in lung complications and kidney damage. Its also hopeful though as they assumed at the time it was going to be a lot worse and it died out, so take some reassurance from that

chrisspivey.org/coronavirus-its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it/?print=print

cologne4711 · 14/02/2020 16:49

I just spotted this, sadly doesn't start until 23 March but may be of interest to some of you. They did a similar course on flu a couple of years ago and it was very interesting:

www.futurelearn.com/courses/covid19-novel-coronavirus

Jenasaurus · 14/02/2020 16:55

There's a youtube clip showing you how to make a bra into a face mask, not sure how affective it will be though.