To not allow my son to sleep over at his dad's house?

[housesharemum]

For context: we are both in our mid 20s, DS is 5. We've been split up for 3 years, DS's dad only sees him every 3 weeks and he lives approximately 45 minutes away.

I live in a two bedroom house, DS has all his amenities here and his own bedroom. He has never stayed over with his dad, except during the holidays when they go to ex-dp's mum and dads house.

We have just got into an argument because he wants DS to come and stay with him overnight when it is his weekend. Ex-dp lives in a house share with 4 other men (his university friends), all around our age. I said I would not let DS stay there for the following reasons:

1. I do not know the 4 other men.

1. They are mid-20's, so likely to want to drink and bring women home. That isn't appropriate with a small child around. It is also not fair to expect the 4 other men to adapt their behaviour for a small child.

1. DS doesn't have a bedroom there, so he'd been sleeping in ex-dp's bed whilst ex-dp slept on the sofa. He also does not have any toys, clothes etc. there.

Ex-dp is saying I am massively unreasonable and he should be able to make whatever decisions he wants when it is his weekend. He has said it is not 'cost effective' to drive 45 minutes each way, over two days, every 3 weeks. This weekend they have done nothing (despite me giving ex-dp £10 to take DS to an arcade) because ex-dp can't be bothered to book or organise anything in advance. So essentially he wants the option to be able to take DS back to his house and sit around watching netflix etc. all day.

He also didn't say goodbye to DS because I wouldn't agree to the above, and also insulted me. Irrelevant to my AIBU, but you can understand the type of man I am dealing with.

AIBU to not allow DS to sleep over at his dad's house given the circumstances?

Based on your ds staying in the same living space as 4 unrelated men of whom you know nothing about, I would absolutely refuse. It sounds like his way of parenting is lazy so he’s not going to be alert to what’s going on around him.

Wow bang out of order @stophuggingme

What does the son want? Does he want to stay with his dad? Could it be tried and he could then say whether he liked it or not.

@SnowyRacoon actually the OP has a duty of care to make sure her child is safe. And it is very much her business in regards to not putting her child in an unsafe environment. She has said it’s not overnights she has an issue with, it’s the environment in which they would be happening.

Do you really think it’s a good idea to have a 5 year old stay overnight in a house with 4 unrelated men and potentially whoever else they invite over? Would you be happy for your child in that situation?

Oh dear @Bbang you cannot debate without swearing?
Sharing experiences is not being argumentative.

@SnowyRacoon you have simply perpetuated my point telling me i am “bang out of order” with your social worker gavel, so thanks for that. I know the truth hurts but like so many other failing over stretched services you are firefighting and not winning the battle. I wouldn’t want to do your job, so much pressure to make decisions when so many voices cannot really be heard. You don’t get to drive home in a Mercedes, play golf and forget about it like a family court judge so I understand to some degree. It’s tough.

The OP is not denying contact. Many people on this thread are hiding behind what they have to say in their job or being derogatory towards the OP because they have not been in this situation themselves.

Yes it is about trust
Yes it is about trying to step back and understand a child needs a relationship with both parents, but when this is juxtaposed to any degree with the safety and welfare of your child there is a conundrum.

It is not black and white.
If the OP had said she had found out her sons father was taking him to stay in a room on his own in a shared house with people drinking and partying while he himself was attempting to sleep on the sofa downstairs,but was she being unreasonable,ex to have no issue with it then I wonder what some of you who think she’s being unreasonable here would say.

I am willing to bet a fair number of you would tell her to put her five year old son first and make sure things changed.

@SnowyRacoon the social worker you referred to hasn’t clarified any points at all on a substantive or empirical basis. She has merely disagreed with myself and another poster.

Seems to me that because it fits your preferred frames of reference it is gospel. What a low bar you have for “evidence”

Well I certainly don't think @stophuggingme is "bang out of order" at all.

Sw as with any other profession have good and bad working within them. In my and others experience the ones that work in relation to contact matters don't do well in remaining impartial wrt to nrps desires.

The sw I was assigned at other times were much better.

This included sw who were investigating malicious reports made by my ex while all this was going on and for several years after (he's not the brightest, he tended to call from his own phone without withholding the number but "remained anon" and he tended to make these reports in response to csa chasing him for cm). They saw through him straight away and were at best bemused when I showed them my copy of the cafcass report, particular raised eyebrows at her complimenting his looks in it.

Also the sw we were assigned when I was very unwell (mix of mh issues and immediately following a serious car accident when I needed more support but wasn't living near family or close friends at the time) were also good, professional and helpful.

I've mentioned the good experiences I've had on other threads on mn where the experience was relevant especially when ops are worried they're going to lose their dc simply because they're experiencing a bout of mental illness.

But I stand by my experiences as they relate to this thread and I think it's shocking that a supposed sw think it remotely appropriate to completely dismiss the experiences of myself and others.

@stophuggingme and I were not the only ones to comment that we felt it highly unlikely a court would agree to the setup the ops ex is suggesting, yet as the only ones to directly engage the poster disputing this we got lambasted very unfairly and quite personally.

Oh dear still foaming at the mouth I see. Still being of no use to the OP dragging out a pathetic internet spat between strangers.

Any practical advice for the actual problem or just more shite to derail with?

Would be a no from me as well op, I can see why you are upset with the idea. Your ex seems to only think of himself. What if your ds couldn't settle? Would your ex bring him home or just let him cry all night?

@Bbang
Oh the irony

The other men you don't know would rule it out for me. I don't think you're being unreasonable. When he has a safe private space with permanent bed and toys etc then of course.

I have never understood this notion that mothers have the last say, that they will or will not allow or let the NRP make decisions regarding their DC.
How would these same mothers feel if they had to justify their actions/living arrangements/decisions on how they manage their money or they wouldnt have their DC to stay?
He is your sons father! He is perfectly entitled to parent in a way that you may or may not approve of, so long as your son isnt at risk of harm, and you have no right to dictate how he lives in order for him to have his son overnight. It matters not whether he wants his son overnight to save money. How would you feel if your ex demanded you change your living arrangements to what he thought was suitable and if you didnt, you wouldnt have your son overnight anymore?

@Bagofworries yet again another poster who seems incapable of distinguishing between a parent who is trying to be responsible - and work with her ex to make sure her son is actually safe— as opposed to controlling.

As myself and others have repeatedly pointed out on this thread the OP has a duty of care to her child as does his father incidentally.

Based on the efforts the OP has made thus far and what she says the father is offered but doesn’t bother taking up I would be fairly confident a court would not see her as controlling but rather that the father needed to have better overnight arrangements in place and try to create opportunities to be more involved with his sons life than one night every three weeks.

So your ex has a house share not with strangers - but with friends he met years ago? (How many years? - at least 4 because they are uni friends?...) How do you know exactly what goes on in the house? Have you stayed there recently? Who tells you that these chaps are bringing home ladies every weekend?

You are being unreasonable. It is not up to you to decide where your ex stays with your child as long as your child is safe and looked after. If there was any suggestion he is not looking after your child when he has him - then you can complain.

@SnowyRacoon Personal experience of an almost identical situation and to add to that, an acquaintance who owns an HMO states that his public liability insurance does not allow children to stay in the property.