To not allow my son to sleep over at his dad's house?

[housesharemum]

For context: we are both in our mid 20s, DS is 5. We've been split up for 3 years, DS's dad only sees him every 3 weeks and he lives approximately 45 minutes away.

I live in a two bedroom house, DS has all his amenities here and his own bedroom. He has never stayed over with his dad, except during the holidays when they go to ex-dp's mum and dads house.

We have just got into an argument because he wants DS to come and stay with him overnight when it is his weekend. Ex-dp lives in a house share with 4 other men (his university friends), all around our age. I said I would not let DS stay there for the following reasons:

1. I do not know the 4 other men.

1. They are mid-20's, so likely to want to drink and bring women home. That isn't appropriate with a small child around. It is also not fair to expect the 4 other men to adapt their behaviour for a small child.

1. DS doesn't have a bedroom there, so he'd been sleeping in ex-dp's bed whilst ex-dp slept on the sofa. He also does not have any toys, clothes etc. there.

Ex-dp is saying I am massively unreasonable and he should be able to make whatever decisions he wants when it is his weekend. He has said it is not 'cost effective' to drive 45 minutes each way, over two days, every 3 weeks. This weekend they have done nothing (despite me giving ex-dp £10 to take DS to an arcade) because ex-dp can't be bothered to book or organise anything in advance. So essentially he wants the option to be able to take DS back to his house and sit around watching netflix etc. all day.

He also didn't say goodbye to DS because I wouldn't agree to the above, and also insulted me. Irrelevant to my AIBU, but you can understand the type of man I am dealing with.

AIBU to not allow DS to sleep over at his dad's house given the circumstances?

I agree with you OP - I wouldn't be happy with my young son staying in a house with 4 men in their 20's whom you don't know.

It's not about these men being potential 'paedos'. The fact is they still want to booze, go out clubbing, bring women home.

You're mid-20s, do you go out boozing, go out clubbing and bring men home? If not, then how do you know they do?

Is there any chance you could meet his friends beforehand?

Is your ex a student? If not, what is his income?
My SIL took his ex to court because she would not allow their DD to sleep over in the house he shared with 2 other people. Mid 20s, both students.
The court agreed that their DD should be allowed to stay over eow.

BTW, do ythe I really think taking a small child to an arcade is spending quality time with them? How do you know what they do when your child is with him? You absolutely are restricting access because you're trying to put conditions on it.if he's driving for 45 minutes there and back twice over a weekend that's 6 hours of driving, which might cost £20 in petrol plus your DS has to spend a long time in the car.

It’s interesting to note that you think all male university students are binge drinking, womanising druggies... or so you are implying.
I suspect that they’d love to have a little boy around the place and would readily play with and fuss over him.
I’ve come across many male or mainly male house shares with my children and I can honestly say that , for the most part, the students are out or locked in their rooms studying
Your son has the right to spend time with his father in his fathers ‘home.’

Why not just take your son there and see for yourself? As to toys... pop some in a box and take them.
Implying that a group of young men , sharing a house, would be a den of iniquity is a bit silly if I’m honest. Go and judge for yourself

To those saying he needs to live in appropriate accommodation - as a single person if he is claiming housing benefit, he will only get it for shared accommodation. This is not necessarily a choice.

That's true, but that isn't the point. OP recognises that and is happy for her ex to come to hers, and also happy for her DS to stay with him at his parents'. The ex however wants to make contact cheaper and easier for him with less travelling by doing an overnight at his instead. It's not about him having 'no option.' He just wants the absolute cheapest option. See also: making sure his DS is fed, making sure he has a nice time, making sure they do things together...

You are right stick to your guns.
Tell him if he wants him that much get a flat on his own. X

@FizzyGreenWater I did not say anything about the contact at all. I just wanted to point that it is not always as easy as just find suitable accommodation if benefits apply.

@copperoliver What makes you think he can get a flat? If he is on housing benefit he has to live in a shared house. That is the rules.

YANBU, I wouldn’t be comfortable with this either. My DC don’t sleep over at their Dad’s anymore because he lives in a tiny two bedroom house with his GF and her two DC. Her two children are 12 and 7, male and female and they share a bedroom which is wrong but whatever. Anyway, they expected our three DC (boy and two girls aged 7, 8 and 10) to share a bedroom with her two. Our DC were going to sleep on the floor on a double blow up mattress which they didn’t want to do. Plus DD’s shouldn’t be sharing with a pubescent 12 year old boy, safeguarding issue. So I put my foot down and said they can’t sleep over, he didn’t really argue back. My ex is also useless and never takes them anywhere, they just sit around in his house bored.

So YANBU at all OP, you’re protecting your child. He needs to get his own flat with space for your DS and he also should make more effort organising things to do with him.

YANBU your child's safeguarding comes first. I would not let my child stay with strangers during the day, let alone staying overnight.

I'm in the exact same situation op, right down to lending ex money to look after his own children

It all depends on how well your ex can judge risk. Mine shares with 3 other men but all the rooms have high locks on the doors that my dc can't reach so they cannot wake up at night and wander around. Ex DP is a selfish, immature twat, but he keeps a very close eye on the dc and is actually overprotective in some ways.

But actually keeping a job and renting a suitable home for the dc? That's beyond his abilities unfortunately 🤦‍♀️

I understand completely why you feel as you do, but I still think YABU. It's his contact time, and I think should be allowed to make his own decisions as to what it suitable. If Ex could be bothered to go to court and ask for contact with overnight access, I bet he would get it.
Maybe you could agree, and let DS try it a couple of times. I would hazard a guess that Ex will tire of this very quickly, as keeping a % year old inside for two days without spending any money/doing anything to entertain him will most likely get too difficult very quickly.

I think your idea of what an average night is like in this house is probably far from reality, and that makes a big difference to whether you're BU or not. They're not going to all be hammered with naked women all over the place all the time.

I agree with you OP.

So you never intend to drink or bring men home?

OK, he's not an ideal dad I suppose, or his circumstances aren't ideal. BUT we're talking about HIS son. If he deems his flatmates to be OK people for his son to spend time with then it's really not your call to gainsay it especially as you actually don't know them. Do you have a dp? If you do, has your ex policed the contact his son has with your dp, your friends etc? Do you want him to? What sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, as they say.

Having ds stay over with your ex would allow them to spend more time together, and maybe even save him enough money to do something more fun together.

Let them try it.

Perhaps having ds stay over once will help ex to see how impractical it is.

PS ex and ds could share the bed, no reason why ex should sleep on the sofa, but again, not your call.

Nope. Yanbu

There is no way I would let my 5 year old kid stay in A house with a load of unknown males

YABU. They’re not random strangers, they are your child’s father’s friends and housemates, who he has known since university.

YABU, this is his dad, you once trusted him enough to sleep with him.

Because we all know how well that always works out for all women . . .

I would not let my child stay with strangers during the day

They're not strangers to the EX though, they're his friends.

I can't believe half of people think the op is being unreasonable! I suspect this is the sort of thing that is OK for other people's children bit there's no way they'd allow it with their own children.

He sounds like a complete loser. Stick to your guns, if that was the extent of his parenting I'd be hoping he eventually loses interest so I can get on with doing it by myself, unless his parents are decent people. Coukd you facilitate more gontact with them so they take the lead and your ex visits your son there? Even if they were willing to have him one weekend in six that would then be a normal family weekend and then on the other visit he could just come for the day then drop off in the eve

YANBU. If he wants him to stay over then he needs to provide him with a home. Contact is meant to be for the child's benefit not the nrp's convenience.

I can see where you are coming from but I think you need to come to some kind of a compromise so your son can have over night access with his dad.

You don't know the other housemates? Can you go over there and meet them? Ask what they think about your DS being over there? How does his dad see it working? I imagine any heavy drinking/women would be when your DS is in bed. Is the sofa he will sleep on in his bedroom? Surely he has a double bed and can sleep in that with your DS? As for toys and clothes - his dad can buy some and he could take some favourites with him.

From the ex point of view of course it suits nicely to have son stay in this unusual environment and he gets to be daddy and so on.

From the safeguarding view point is higher risk than staying at his mum's because you have no idea who these other people are/what their backgrounds are etc and he has no room to sleep in.

Who has the greater need for care and feeling in this situation.

In terms of other things, I and everyone else here has no idea if you are unreasonable or not.
If his housemates are getting drunk every night in the house with a host of gfs, you are obviously not unreasonable. Or you might be catastrophising and they are all PHD students who spend every evening working away at their desks in their rooms.
Similarly with the sandwiches for dinner. He might be useless and can't be bothered to cook for them. Or his income might be so low that it was all he could afford.