Gender "disappointment"

[minesadecaf]

Is that even the correct word? Aibu to not understand this?

My friend gave birth to a beautiful healthy son a few days ago. This is her dc2, a second boy. She didn't find out the sex during her pregnancy for the reason that she'd be disappointed to be told if it was a boy and would rather hold on for a surprise in "the hope" of the baby being a girl.

Now he's here and he's amazing! Friend is happy he's healthy of course but she's noticeably upset/gutted (not sure which if either is correct way of describing her emotions but I hope it's clear enough) that she hasn't had a little girl. Frankly, I just can't understand it so how can I "comfort" her? I want to send a congratulations card but all the "it's a boy!" messages seem weirdly inappropriate. I'm out of my depth here.

Now I should add that I'm a mother of two girls whom obviously I adore but still, I just can't imagine being despondent about not having "the right one".

Aibu??

kittensinmysupper, your post is extremely offensive. Must you blurt out every little nasty thought that passes a synapse or, is that why you're here full stop?

It's possible to not experience something, not understand it, shrug your shoulders and move on to another thread because you (obviously not aimed at you) have the wit to realise that this is a real thing for some other woman and that keeping quiet is less hurtful.

YABVU OP. Just because you don't understand how your friend feels, that might be because you're not in her position, never have been and never will be, but as her friend you should 'try' to support her and if you can 'try' to understand and show some compassion.

I find many of the posts on this thread really awful and so ignorant it's really disheartening.

I experienced gender disappointment. It was awful, a really awful time. I didn't find out I was having a boy until he was born. I remember looking in the mirror when my baby was 3 days old and just bursting in to tears. Initially I put it down to post baby blues. But it didn't go away. During the weeks that followed, I spoke to the health visitors and told them I didn't feel 'balanced', I couldn't understand my feelings, I didn't feel the way I expected to and I felt I wasn't bonding with him. I couldn't open my new baby gifts because they were in blue paper not pink. I cried every time I opened a card and it said baby boy or was blue. This went on for several months. I couldn't go clothes shopping for him because I should be in the girls department not the boys. I would try and shop for him and burst in to tears and leave the shop.

I was referred to a mental health nurse who was really supportive and told me it was one of the big taboos she comes across and that it's surprisingly common, but most women don't admit their feelings because they know they should be happy and grateful to be blessed with a healthy baby. I was diagnosed with PND.

I had never suffered with any form of depression before.

I really struggled to bond with my son and every time I looked at him and didn't feel a bond filled me with an indescribable sadness.

It eventually passed but it took about six months.

I now can;t believe I felt that way and feel my son has made my family complete and it wouldn't be the same without him. And I say my family because I already had two daughters! That's the thing, I wasn't longing for a baby girl.

The reason I'm sharing this is because so many of you on this thread seem to think gender disappointment is a show of you simply being ungrateful, and you should consider yourself lucky to have a healthy baby, you need to put away the stereotyped image you have of having a little girl. I'm a brilliant example of how complex it can be and it can be a sign of PND.

Buy your friend a card and a beautiful baby gift, just because it's a boy doesn't mean it has to be blue. There are many beautiful coloured or simply white newborn baby clothes. Listen to her. Let her talk. Her feelings will pass and if they don't completely go away they will lessen.

I've been in lots of male dominated environments and if I see another woman, I'll often gravitate towards her and share experiences - I don't think that's sexist, it's because we've both likely experienced sexism and are likely to have shared experience.

That's a very different situation to being disappointed with the sex of your own child.

My gran had seven girls. It broke their dad’s heart because he had a farm to pass on. My mum was the youngest and my gran wouldn’t even look at her for the first day. Yes, I know, it wasn’t good. Those seven girls were so close, I loved having six aunties and my mum was my best friend. I wanted that kind of close relationship with a daughter. It wasn’t to be but I there will always be a daughter shaped hole in my heart.

That's a very different situation to being disappointed with the sex of your own child

Yes, they are different situations and that was a shallow example (I thought of a few others but didn't want to derail the thread with anything more topical) but IMO they both stem from a basic human need to form connections with other humans based on shared experiences.

When being a woman has impacted so much of one's life (consciously or subconsciously), it's natural to hope that you'll build connections with people who truly understand your perspective.

It seems understandable that a woman living under the patriarchy would long for a girl. For some, it can be a lonely experience being the only female in a family.

It seems understandable that a woman living under the patriarchy would long for a girl. For some, it can be a lonely experience being the only female in a family.

I can understand that feeling of loneliness but not how you'd get from that, acknowledging we suffer under patriarchy, and actively wanting a girl child to come along and accompany you in your suffering? Or am I misinterpreting you, sorry. I am sure that's not what you mean, so I think I am. I'm quite a black and white thinker so sorry if I'm getting that wrong.

I would not call this gender disappointment but I was actually scared about having a girl. CsA and rape in my childhood and teen years, a stalker father, as well as general everyday sexism as it's called. It kept me up at night, worrying about this little girl wandering through life alone and having to face all that stuff. I cried a lot with worry, I think I was mentally unwell so it probably all sounds irrational the amount it affected me. I didn't long for a boy or desperately not want a girl, but I had so much anxiety over the thought of having a girl and her potential suffering that I regretted ever getting pregnant. I did have a girl as it turned out, and Ive since realised she has the kind of parents who will look after her the best they can and not leave her to face everything alone, and I've calmed down.

I've also seen in my dp's family - he is one of five. Four boys, then the youngest child is the girl. Obviously what his parents wanted all along, she has always been treated as the favourite and now all of them have DC of their own, her DC are the favourite grandchildren. If any of them say anything they're told it's because dd's have a special bond... And in this case it's very true, but it was a self fulfilling prophecy because of how they treated her and how they treated their sons.

Their second to youngest child, the youngest son, really hates his sister. I actually find it disturbing how much he hates her. I think it's because he knows how much they wanted a girl, and maybe feels it harder than the others as he's the youngest son. It doesn't excuse how he treats her, it's not her fault that her parents have done this.

It's also been detrimental to her IMO, as I think she is going to find it a real struggle when their parents die - I mean I know most people find it a struggle, but she hasn't been given the opportunity to be fully independent and I think on a practical level she will find life hard.

I'm sure for the majority of parents they'd not treat their kids so differently like that, but I think either consciously as with dp's parents, and subconsciously for some others, it does happen and it can be damaging.

BlueHarry I'm sorry that happened to you and I agree that parents' gender disappointment can mess with children's heads.

I just don't think it's a simple phenomenon - it's not the mother's fault she feels that way.

I don't believe people actively wish to have a child who will suffer for their sex in the same way they have - many women don't even realise that they suffer because of their sex so I don't think this happens on a conscious level. My point was more that it's not the mother's fault if she has that deep longing for a girl.

I hope you’re being facetious about drop kicking someone in the face @JanuaryJones20 what an absolutely evil thing to say.

Not really kind of you to be bitching about her on mumsnet.

I do understand gender disappointment (I hate the term gender though) not because of my preconceived views on gender stereotypes but because of my own insecurities and experiences.

My DH is one of 4 boys and he’s really close to both his parents.

When we got married and had a baby we got MIL & FIL equally involved as my parents were.

Had I found out what sex DD was when pregnant I’m sure I would have been disappointed. I thought I’d have a boy and didn’t originally want a girl as I don’t have a good relationship with my mum, I don’t want DD to hate me the way I hate my mum.

I put up with a lot of shit from my mum for the sake of my dad and I’m deep in FOG.

Now I have a girl I’m struggling with the constant daddy’s girls comments and o feel completely redundant.

I’m expecting DD2 now and I wanted another DD so she’d have the sisterly relationship I never had and that we have a 2 bedroom house so at least they can share for a while. I have all of DDs old clothes so not had to buy much.

The constant daddy’s girls comments will break me though.

My MIL said we have to have a boy next to continue to the family name

We have a pretty common surname which isn’t going to die out and DHs DNA is still being passed on through DDs

No one seems as excited about a second child anyway

Such a race to be unkind on this thread.

I'm currently pregnant with DC2. I honestly dont mind what it is. But I'm sure it must be hard if you have your heart set on one and your baby is the other.

It is of course true that people have fertility issues and I'm sure they would be happy with either. But by that logic none of us on here can ever moan about anything because we don't live in Syria. Its important to remember how fortunate we are but life doesn't always work by being grateful for something just because other people don't have it.

I am pregnant after infertility- I’m elated, and of course any healthy baby I am blessed with would be the best thing ever. But I was much more worried and anxious about having a boy than a girl.
I’ve got three sisters, and whilst my parents are married and I have seen lots of my dad since he semi retired about 5 years ago, he worked on the other side of the country when I was growing up. I never saw him, he would come home for a couple of days a month mid week, and I would usually be at school, maybe he would make us a snack tea or take us to the sweet shop but he didn’t really parent us (not having a go, my mum was a wonderful sahm and then p/t worker and we never Went without emotionally or with things or experiences. But present in my life I had 8 aunts, 4 godmothers, 12 female cousins, my granny a male cousin and 1 uncle.
My frame of reference is almost exclusively female. and the idea of having a little boy was far more anxiety provoking before I met DH to be honest. I trust him totally and think he will be the best dad ever. So I am really happy either way.

But our hormones are all over the shop when we are pregnant and post partum and I rather expect her disappointment is more a manifestation of anxiety and her own worries, as well as greif for the wonderful experiences she had that she won’t get to pass on than anything sinister.

@Kittensinmysupper

You’re the one that sounds like you need to rustle up a few brain cells. You don’t understand it fair enough but using the whole be grateful and not even trying to consider beyond your own viewpoint makes you sound ridiculous. Gender disappointment is nothing new FFS. Many people have a preference rather voiced or not, more often than not some don’t even realise the strength of it until they find they’re not having their preference. Numerous studies have been done about this and shown that higher percentages prefer their own gender or have a preference compared to those who don’t. What is different now is people are more open to talking about it and seeking help instead of suffering in silence but unfortunately there are still people like yourself who choose to still assume it’s a choice.

Also, people who have had fertility issues and miscarriages have also experienced gender disappointment so you assuming it is just those who don’t suffer shows how little you know. Again, a couple being able to have a child easily compared to a couple who struggles is irrelevant to each other.

I wish this be grateful sh*t where no one can say how they feel without someone telling them about someone having it worse would die already. I remember having a stranger come up to us while we were having dinner who decided to tell me that I should be grateful my son (11 mo at the time) was a normal baby because she had twin grandsons and one being autistic wasn’t normal. Why she felt the need to disclose such info is beyond me but I was too speechless to tell her how ridiculous she was and where I thought she could stick her comment but while my dad just said thank you. Same son (5) was diagnosed with autism in September after 2 years of waiting for a diagnosis. I wonder what said lady would say now about being grateful.

I have all DS’s who I love dearly. They were also conceived via IVF so I know the pain of infertility. I also suffered (and still do to a certain extent with gender disappointment)

I would dearly love to be raising a daughter- not because of hair/ nails/ makeup etc but because girls and women receive totally different socialization in our culture and their own culture/ expectations/ play style/ etc etc is very understandable and relatable to me and I would live to experience it again with my own child. Boy culture (And I’ve experienced a lot of it now with three sons) is very alien to me and I hate the focus on sports, competition, aggression etc in what they watch/read/play etc. I don’t think this is innate (or definitely not fully) but just because it’s socialized doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Gender based culture is a huge thing in young kids and I would love to be free of the battles/ weapons/ sports side of things

The comments here basically sum up what is wrong with Mumsnet.

My friend has emotions I don’t agree with and I judge her for them, AIBU to start a thread to invite MN to judge her too?

Yes.

Unusual usernames

People don’t choose to be depressed. It is an illness. Would you say someone who had a physical illness ‘chooses’ to be like that?

@MintyMabel EXACTLY 🙌

I hate the focus on sports, competition, aggression etc in what they watch/read/play etc.

As their mother you are in control of what they are exposed to at a young age, there is no need for any sort of focus on sports, competition or aggression unless you have bought into the gender stereotypes and forced them on to the children. It's the same with girls and all things pink, sparkly, unicorn and princess- it's not needed and definitely not essential.

there is no need for any sort of focus on sports, competition or aggression unless you have bought into the gender stereotypes and forced them on to the children.

I utterly disagree with this.

I believe that a significant amount of gendered behaviour is innate (though society plays a part too).

DS was brought up with gender neutral toys, clothes, books, you have it.

I’ll never forget the look on his face when at about 10 months I pushed him past a building site in his buggy. He was entranced.

He has grown up to be very stereotypically ‘boyish’ in his interests, despite my concerted efforts to encourage less gendered play. He is considerably more physical and competitive than his female cousins and friends.

This is absolutely not because I’ve ‘bought into gender stereotypes’. The gorgeous dollhouse I bought for him as a baby remains untouched in the corner.

This innate gender stereotyped behaviour doesn't always happen though! My DD is loud, active, competitive, sporty. My DS is much quieter, likes to sit and do more creative activities. My friend's DS is is the same. He's really in to knitting! He'll sit and knit or draw for ages.

People are allowed to feel how they feel. NOBODY has the right to tell someone that their feelings are invalid. NOBODY has the right to shame someone for how they're feeling. NOBODY has the right to make it a competition - yes, sure, there are people worse off in the world. There are ALWAYS people worse off. That doesn't mean nobody is allowed to feel how they feel. Your friend is disappointed, that's fine. Her feelings are valid. It was unkind of you to start this thread. I suspect you knew everyone would attack her and that's why you did it as you feel the same way as them.

I’ll never forget the look on his face when at about 10 months I pushed him past a building site in his buggy. He was entranced.

My daughter did the same

He is considerably more physical and competitive than his female cousins and friends.

Because that's his personality, testosterone does to some degree mean that males present these traits more commonly but that is biological and mainly obsolete now as society and nurture are a much more prominent part of our lives.

Gender is so much a part of our collective thinking most people don't even realise what's happening.

This innate gender stereotyped behaviour doesn't always happen though!

Of course not.

In general though, certain behaviours are more likely from each sex. I don’t believe that is wholly nurture.

I pushed him past a building site in his buggy. He was entranced.

Same as DD. She has always loved building sites. It isn’t an inherent boy thing. It’s just that when they get to be older, girls are told by society building sites are not for them.