To not be sure about DH

[Apirateslifeforme]

A few months ago we had a bit of a scary situation, I dont know how to explain it all properly, but I'll do my best.
My concern is that I am worried DH is unable to protect himself or DD.

I'll also preface with, I have extreme generalised anxiety and OCD. I'm pretty much agorophobic.i dont tend to go to town, I do maybe 3 or 4 times a year at most. I'm saying this because it may have some bearing on how I'm feeling (I'll also point out I am on medication and I am seeing a counsellor. I'm trying to work through my issues)

So we went to town one day, I had to go because there was something I'd ordered that DH needed. We were having a fairly good time.
It was later in the day, we had been to get the item we needed, we had popped into boots, had a coffee and a chat, then started to head towards the car.
I saw a security guard hanging around, and a stall owner looking at a young couple, quite concerned.
I sort of noticed and thought it strange but shook it out of my head as nothing strange, maybe me always looking for something to be wrong.

As we were paying for our parking, a man comes up to us, hes asking how to pay for parking (our town gives a few hours free parking on Saturdays and sundays, so we didnt have to pay but you still have to put the coin in)
But hes got a wallet out. I say you've just got to put the coin in the machine, even if you dont have to pay.
We turn and take a few steps, he follows. He says hes done it. He hasn't because he moved with us. And he starts talking about security being up his arse all day.
I move again, and he gets between me and 11 year old daughter. He puts his hand in his pocket and drags out a handful of nuts. He offers DD them. I dont know why, but I was very stern without even thinking I said NO. DD put her hands in her pocket. Shes at an age where shes going to shrug me off if i try to grab her, but i pulled her closer to me as i again stepped away.
We were waiting for a lift, and as we step forward to the lift he positioned himself to go with us, and I'm thinking I dont want to get in a lift with this man, there was a bad feeling that came over me, and I thought its probably quite innocent. I'm probably overreacting, but I cant go upto the carpark with this man. We park on the highest floor of the carpark because its quiet. No way am I risking ending up there with this man.
So just before we step In, DH is in the lift by the way, hes oblivious to what's going on.
I say, shit, I need to go to poundland.
The man turns on his heel and says me too, steps out of the lift, and as I make my way past, I realise security is hanging around, I get close enough that she will hear me, and I say to him
"Can you stop following us, we dont know you. You're making me uncomfortable"
He replies, no, I'm coming too.
I say, still quite loudly, you're a stranger, leave us alone.
Security guard lunges toward him, and they disappear into a lift.
I say to DH that was weird, DD says, my legs felt like concrete when we were going to get in the lift. He was weird. DH says, yeah maybe, so what did we need from poundland.

I say, I didn't, I just needed to be away from him. I could've accepted that maybe he was a bit awkward in social situations or that I was being over cautious until he got out of the lift to follow us, and when I told him he was making me uncomfortable his response wasnt, I'm sorry and leaving us alone. He was so close to us. I've never had this feeling before.

So we get in the lift and I'm trying to not make it into a big thing. I'm sort of thinking, I'm a bit weird myself, maybe he was a bit weird on the other end of the scale. Maybe he thinks that's how you make friends, I'm not going to panic about it.

We get to our car, and there are two women who've got a flat tyre. Hit a kerb on the way up the carpark. So I say to my husband, we should try and help. (Full disclosure, DDog was in the car, as he often is, he can take being left in the car, but not at home, so the boots fully decked out as his "safe space"
As were trying to prize off the tyre- its stuck for some reason, DH and now another man are trying to use brute force to get the wheel off. Loads of noise, dog hasn't made a peep. All of a sudden the dog is going ballistic. I explain the dogs safe place is the car, hes got a bed and toys and everything In the back. He somehow knows were going back to the car.
Before I finish explaining, the man is right beside us. One of tbe women turns to me and mouths she thinks that hes drunk. As the other man speaks to him, I grab DDs hand and go to security downstairs. Just seems beyond weird, hes now talking to two women who are stuck. Security then tells me hes been following women to their cars all day, and trying to force young women to eat his food and get them to leave the town with him.

We go back up with security, and hes trying to break into cars,
He then comes upto me and says security is deciding whether I'm taking him to my home tonight, I told him to leave us alone and he wanted an explanation why I didnt want him around us, then he tried to grab my daughter by the arm, telling her that her mother is crazy, and if she have him a minute to explain they could be friends.

She is 11. This man was 25 or so.

The police were called, not by us but security. I don't even know when, but DH witnessed all of this, and didnt say even one word.

Later at home, he said that he thought the man might've been after the phone we picked up In town. No real concern for DDs safety, didnt pick up on half of what happened.

Its left me feeling like he would completely miss if something like that ever happened again. It freaked me out because it seemed to me like he was only talking to me because I was almost the only thing in the way of him getting to my daughter and DH literally had no concern at all.

How can I trust him to protect her?

I know some people will only pick up on the danger that they are in, and this man made both me and DDs stomachs feel like they were falling out. I feel anxious a lot, but this was on a complete different level, and the barks that my dog let out, I've never in my life heard anything like it. It was a pitch I've never heard from a dog in my life.

What can I do? Am I being U to be worried he wont protect her when hes out because hes just going not realise when theres danger?

It’s a hard one. Maybe he felt that you had it under control so him flailing into the situation wasn’t going to do anything other than aggravate it and while I may have missed it, the guy wasn’t physical with anyone?

I’m 5’nothing and DH is over 6’. I’m very experienced at dealing with mentally ill and/or problematic people. DH will therefore step right back and leave it entirely to me and would never dream of interfering unless I explicitly asked which I never have. DH would just escalate the situation immediately and make a balls up of it.

I don't think you're being unreasonable in the slightest. I'm fairly hard faced but I'd have been terrified in that situation.
I honestly can't imagine my dh being that oblivious to a stranger actually putting his hands on my daughter.
I think some men really are so out of tune with women's discomfort.
I'm also wondering why security hadn't stepped in sooner if he'd been following women for some time?
I'm sorry that happened to you both.

In complete honesty, that's the reason for this thread, I dont trust him to be a responsible person for DD since.
I was always quite certain that he would sort of know when a situation was a miss, and it's now my concern that not only would he not realise it, but that if DD is with him, that maybe she will trust him to protect her and him just being the way he is will mean he could potentially shrug off her concerns and they end up in a bad position.

I feel awful saying this, and I'm probably not explaining it properly,
But I feel like I can trust her to go out with her friends, and I know if a situation like that happened again, that she would know what to do, and would manage to keep herself safe, but when with DH I am so concerned that his response would be, dont worry. Forget all about it, then politely walk into whatever danger there was.
I think his naivety would in some respects get in the way of her ability to protect herself, in her thinking, well dad says I'm safe, so I must be. Whereas otherwise she would probably think (because we have discussed it at length) the worst case scenario is that someone thinks DD is rude, but also that's A- a risk worth taking if the other option is to be unsafe. and B- most adults would be mortified if they were making tweens feel unsettled and itd be unlikely to happen unless it was someone who was around them with some sort of nefarious plan. And in that case, their opinion doesn't matter.

I have reiterated to DD also that the chances of these things happening to me, are more likely because body language is really quite important, and I'm sure that people who are looking for a victim type, are drawn to me by the way I carry myself. Which is somewhat important because DD doesn't carry herself the way I do. Shes quite confident, sort of carries herself properly. So off the bat I am already aware that DDs is risk is different whilst I'm not around ( I know I've given it a lot of thought)

We also discussed at length that there are a number of people in and around that situation who were good people.
So there was this one who didnt have good intentions.
But in the first post I said I realised that there was a couple and the stallholder looked concerned, well that couple was the man with someone who he was trying to force food on (I'd put it down to them being a couple, probably fairly new but maybe he was a bit over the top, but she was a bit shy and embarrassed at him trying to feed her)
The stallholder was so concerned he wasnt serving the people who wanted to be served by him (1)
The security guard was there, hovering around (2)
There was someone who the security guard was talking to monitoring CCTV from the centre who I believe called the police, I heard them talking through their walky talky things (3)
One of the ladies we were trying to help, also concerned by him, but I believe told him to go away too at one point (4)
When the police turned up, it was really strange because their body language to him was something I picked up on. They took it seriously. I've seen quite a few police officers, and I've never really seen that type of reaction if it makes sense, I felt like it was taken seriously and i didnt even know they were coming. (5)

So even in that situation, there were 5 people who were paying attention, and were willing to step in to help when someone is in need and pay attention, and I'm trying to convince myself that even if that's reflection of the general population, that does mean that the people who are bad are very few compared to those who have good intentions.
In fact, I'm not even sure if the other man helping with the ladies car said at one point to go away.
Funny how small details seem to escape until trying to explain it.

Thank you to anyone whos still reading the rambling.

OP be honest, do you think he was genuinely oblivious or he just pretended to be oblivious because didn't want to get involveded out of fear himself?
But was too embarrassed to admit that so pretended to not be aware you were at risk?

It comes across to me as the latter. Especially as he witnessed your DD get grabbed.

im really sorry op but uve been going round this on here all day and you seem to have gotten nowhere infact even worse.and this will come by going round on your own with this epsecially heightened with your illness's.it catastrophises already possibly horrible things into gigantic preportions.and the person you need to be telling this all too is your dp.
we cant possibly know.words can make situations look so different to the individual reader.very much depending on what type of day they are having.we could be taking it out of conext or we could not.but either way you and your family were there and need to wor together to sort this.otherwsie your going to be shifty and not trusting and it will build something between the two of you.communiation is key with a partner.always!

I’m not sure about that Kate. I think the OP has got a clear response on here that her instincts and judgements were sound and that she shouldn’t second guess herself, or put it down to her generalised anxiety. Hopefully this will be helpful to her going forward. I do hope so.

Personally, if I were her, I’d be furious with the DH, but maybe there is something more going on with him we’re not aware of. I would not trust him with my kids either after that and I think I would lose a lot of respect for him as a husband and father, to be perfectly honest. But, as I say, maybe he has undiagnosed issues? I guess if the OP doesn’t go out with him much, she might be less aware of how he functions outside, day to day,

I don't understand why the security guard didn't call the police.

Sorry I mean call the police much earlier. Security said it wasn't his first attempt at talking to young girls

I'm more concerned that security hadn't previously rung the Police if they knew full well this bloke was doing what he was doing and hadn't cleared off when they had encountered him earlier. That's their job. I'd be reporting them to the shopping centre management big time.

TBH, OP i think your anxiety is clouding your judgement of how your DH would be if he were alone in this situation with your daughter. Firstly the man probably wouldn't have targetted him anyway.

And tbh i imagine that maybe your DH didn't appreciate quite how awful it was for you at the time, after all he had seen you involved security? So probably you need to explain it to him so he's on the look out for it in future. Can you use a safeword type of thing with him so he knows when you're in distress?

Of course if he did pick up on it and carried on he's a bit of an arse and also needs The Talk.

If you are up to it, or if your DH can, it might be worth while getting on to the security company though. They should have got rid of him right at the beginning, and by the 2nd time they were involved they should have called the police.

@Apirateslifeforme Hey, that sounds really frightening to be honest and it sounds like you really managed to keep your cool but protect your DD so well done to you! I may be echoing a lot of previous posts but firstly, YANBU about being worried about your DH's reaction! I'd be worried too and it definitely needs a lot of discussion. However, I wonder if it's worth discussing his notion of danger? I think men perceive danger very differently to women and pick up on cues a bit later perhaps, as I think as a woman you learn to be on constant alert in public (that's just my opinion). For example, my DH told me a story recently that he was out at a bar for a friends bday and had gone to the bathroom. He had left the stall door ajar, and says many men do this as usually urinals are open anyway. Someone had come up behind him and started rubbing his shoulders whilst he was p*ssing and he laughed it off thinking it was one of his mates taking the mickey. He then turned around and realised it was a complete stranger and was horrified. I was in shock that he wasn't more scared, and as a woman you would NEVER leave a cubicle unlocked or not check who was touching you I think!!! Long story short, he may have perceived that mans behaviour really differently to you and maybe needs some help to recognise warning signs like invasion of privacy, unwanted conversation etc which women often have to put up with!

I’d be disappointed and cross in your situation. He didn’t react when a strange man was quite clearly bothering you enough for you to ask him to leave you alone? Someone that worried the centre security enough to be following him?
He didn’t react when this man laid his hands on his daughter? No, not good enough.
Sorry this happened.

That’s a really odd situation that will likely never ever happen again. I don’t think its useful to extrapolate his reactions to general life.

To be honest if it was me I would have told the man to fuck off & then do my utmost to leave. I wouldn’t have left a dog in the car whilst I was shopping nor would I would be stopping to help a group of women change a tyre if I felt my dd had been in danger in the vicinity. I would have let them know that there was a weirdo about and they could take their own measures, after all there was police and security about.

I think the important thing is that you get well. You can’t let your illness use this it will do no one any good. And stop leaving your dog in the car.

@whiskybysidedoor very valid points.
I understand people dont agree with the dog situation, I dont want to get into it too much, but dog has a lot of behavioural issues, we do have a behaviourist who has said that if hes able to deal with being left in the car whilst were out, but not the house then to do that. If hes left for any period of time he scratches and scratches himself and we return to a sore bleeding dog. We got him at 9 months old and we were either his 4th or 5th home. From our understanding he was left at home for very long periods in a previous home, and it just doesn't work for him even being left for a moment. We tried all of the usual training methods and they just didnt work for him. We spent the first six months trying and he would trash the house. We love him and it does play a part in how long we ever stay out because I'm aware of him being there. Also means in extreme temperatures I have another reason I dont go out.

I also agree maybe the best bet wasnt to help the ladies, but I reasoned that the man had been moved off, had seemingly been escorted to the carpark so probably got in his car and left, and that at that point what had happened was weird, but safe as to the best of my knowledge he wouldn't be there anymore.

I have revisited how I could have been better in the situation.

Haven’t you asked your DH
this seems like a lot of ruminating. When you could simply discuss this with him

I have discussed it with him, his view is that he was going to step in if he tried to touch DD again, that he didn't think it was that bad, and that he thought the danger was more the item we had just picked up being stolen and that was what he thought he needed to protect until he touched DD, he says at that point he started to think maybe he was a danger, and was glad that the police appeared.
He ultimately didnt think that the risk was to DD until very late on.

So many people are assuming that the police were not called earlier. In all probability, they were probably called a lot earlier and maybe a few times.

We have really deep police cuts in the UK and the numbers have been falling for 10 years and more. Of course response time is bad.

Op I think you did great and what you said about your daughter thinking dad is safe and being less able to protect herself when with him is spot on. She has the skills but they will be easily swayed when with him as kids naturally defer to a parent and he is her dad.

I think you need to talk to him and ascertain his opinion and thoughts, to see whether it's something he would work on or something he will never bother about.

Going forward I would just work on him to be less oblivious and work with your daughter to not defer to her dad in any situation but to always trust her own instincts.

YANBU, your DH sounds useless. It's almost as if he knew he wasn't in danger, that the target was your dd and you and just shrugged it off. All he needed to do was help you in making dd safe, and he failed.

And also security should have called police immediately they founf the man to be following women to their cars.

Sorry you had to go through that OP. It's almost like you have a second child to care for. Is he like this in other aspects?

flirtygirl, if they had called the police, they would have re-assured OP that they had done this.

Sadly I've found out that people are sometimes reluctant to call the police because they don't want the hassle of giving statements to police (either at home or in the police station) or having to go to court.

I think his explanation sounds pretty ok
He thought you were dealing with it well.

I think if he was there alone with Dd then he would have reacted like you did.

OP, have you ever been in a situation before when you’ve been out with him and a weird man has approached you? Or maybe someone groped you in a bar or verbally abused you somewhere? I’m just wondering if he’s ever been aware of anything?

I mean, if you were coming home on a train or something at 1am, would he come and pick you up or would he be ok to just let you walk home?

If your DD was being messaged by someone unknown m, claiming to be 12 and asking to meet up, would he think this was suspicious? Or would he just think it was all fun?

You handled it well. But why didn't you say...DH this man won't leave us alone and is following is and offering nuts from his pocket to DD. Very loudly....? Then talk to him about it after. Considering he wasn't there for most of it, I don't think he would see what was happening

Us British are terribly polite to strangers trying to harm us aren't we..... I don't understand why you wouldn't shout very loudly to make others aware or say very loudly STOP FOLLOWING US AND TRYING TO TOUCH MY DD. That would have got a lot of attention and also would have scared him. Are we so PC now that we can't make a scene when we are in potential danger?

Maybe your DH was preoccupied for some reason.

FFS, OP was terrified, the man grabbed her daughter and her DH just stood there and did fuck all.

He ultimately didnt think that the risk was to DD until very late on.

Maybe that’s a valid assessment?

I’m much better at assessing people in such situations than DH. Maybe your DH is better at assessing people in such situations than you. Maybe he isn’t. No idea given we can only go on what your version is.