To think the use of prostitutes just isn't that big a deal?

[Hihothedairyo]

Now here me out first, I do not mean married men who use prostitutes without the knowledge/consent of their wives/partners. Those are scum, I have been cheated on in that way before so believe me when I say I do not agree with that.

However, I've seen and heard a lot of people (including friends of mine) who believe that men in general who use prostitutes are scum.

Personally, I think that, provided you are sure the person you are having sex with is not being trafficked, then you are really just two consenting adults having sex. Yes there is money exchanged, but nobody is forcing the sex worker to do this job (in this scenario, I know that DOES happen).

Should a person who's say, 30 years old and still a virgin, and now feels their too old and too inexperienced to go out and find a woman to have sex with them, not be able to use a service that a woman is willingly providing? What about someone with some form of disability that wants sex but doesn't have the confidence or whatever to get it normally?

I've got a good friend who lost his virginity to a prostitute, and has visited them a few other times also. He's in a happy relationship now and does not use them and never has while in any relationship. I don't feel that him having used them was wrong, but he is not open about having used them at all and I'm pretty sure his partner doesn't know that he ever has.

I just feel there is far too much judgement and hate towards people who are, in reality, just doing something that has been done since time began. And I see no wrong in it, I imagine I'm in the minority here though.

sorry should read "Having the penis of someone who you aren't sufficiently attracted by to choose to have sex as a freely consenting adult* inside your vagina is a violation of physical integrity."

key phrase got deleted while attempting to rewrite..

Should a person who's say, 30 years old and still a virgin, and now feels their too old and too inexperienced to go out and find a woman to have sex with them, not be able to use a service that a woman is willingly providing? What about someone with some form of disability that wants sex but doesn't have the confidence or whatever to get it normally?

Nobody has a right to sex.

Predominately men but by no means all.

And here come the handmaidens with the "not all men!" rhetoric.

No. Not all men but enough men for it to be problematic. I think we'd agree that all of us here very much love individual men however as a group they issues and just because it is not all men does not mean we shouldn't discuss it.

The claim that women on MN don't care about boys being raped is a bit weird as well! Trying to distract I suppose?

Consent is a complex issue. It isn't just about trafficking and coercion. It is about poverty, mental health problems, drug addiction and many other issues. I do not believe it is possible to have a system in which prostitution is legal for those who enter into it freely, while also ensuring that there is no one engaged in it who would prefer not to be. I am also strongly against the prosecution of women who engage in prostitution. It is bizarre that, historically, it was a crime to be a prostitute, but not a crime to buy their services. The legal situation would be reversed to make it clear to men that they are engaging in an activity strongly associated with the abuse of vulnerable women.

I work with trafficked children. I do not believe it is possible to be sure an individual isn't being trafficked or forced. They definitely won't tell you, their situation is too vulnerable.

I also just don't buy into the idea that it's ok for men to pay money to use a woman's body to cum in. I don't imagine that people for think women are people rather than objects would do that.

I understand some women's reasoning for doing it, however, it is never the only option

This is laughable to be honest. In at least 99% of cases, a woman selling herself for sex will be doing it because she feels like it's her only option. She will not be some happy, confident, middle-class woman who chose prostitution because it's more fun than working in an office and she likes choosing her own hours or whatever bullshit narrative people are pushing about "escort" work these days.

Just because the factors behind why some women turn to prostitution may sometimes be more complex than "she was trafficked and is being drugged and forced against her will by a violent pimp" doesn't mean those factors don't exist.

@ILoveBlinking

There's no disentangling the sex industry from abuse.

I'm sure a few women are happy doing it. But for most, it's either coerced, or in desperation.

A key thing would be to make sure no woman is ever criminalised for sex work. That is abhorrent - criminalised for being abused, essentially.

I knew a young lad in his early twenties who had muscular dystrophy. He was confined to a wheel chair and knew that he would probably die young. Unfortunately he had never had a relationship and was going on holiday to Amsterdam. He wanted to visit a sex worker because he had never experienced sex and he wanted to before he died. I felt quite torn about it really because whilst I would never advocate paying for sex I can understand someone using them in those circumstances.

Surely you can see that that practice just isn't safe and that no matter what amount of money is exchanged, the risk isn't worth it

I can see that and yes I do agree with that. No I wouldn't ever turn to prostitution, and no I wouldn't want me daughter to be a prostitute, but the men who beat up and harm them are not the people I was referring to here. I personally don't believe it's ever a person's only option, I think that's bullshit. If they are there by choice, then hey are consenting, in my opinion.

It’s just a bit icky. I’ve always wondered about the logistics, does the woman have a timer? When it gets to the allotted time is that it, even if he’s about to cum? If I was the man i’d just be so mortified putting the money down that it would put me off. Plus imagine seeing a work colleague coming out zipping up his trousers before you had your go 😬

Where are all these brothels then full of trafficked men for women to buy

Probably young lads for men to buy...

I wonder if anti trafficking laws have had the unintended consequence of prostitution increasing. Craigslist used to have a section called "casual encounters" where people could hook up for consensual casual sex. They stopped it worldwide because of US anti-trafficking laws.

Crinkle77

That's litreally just a storyline from inside Im Dancing.

Crinkle I disagree with the idea that sex is an activity that you can decide to "try out", because a woman's body isn't like sports equipment. Sex isn't a right, for anyone, in any situation. I think the man you are speaking about must have held some very misogynistic ideas to believe he can choose to experience sex in any way other than finding a partner who also wanted to have sex with him.

I’m guessing that not all of the people on here disagreeing are also against surrogacy overseas. Some people would happily use a surrogate but be horrified by use of prostitutes. Both are people buying women’s bodies for their own purposes. Both are wrong.

So if a woman is in an abusive relationship and feels she has no other options (as happens hundreds of time over on the relationships board) and her husband rapes her, in your mind she has consented because she’s there by choice...

I am also strongly against the prosecution of women who engage in prostitution. It is bizarre that, historically, it was a crime to be a prostitute, but not a crime to buy their services

Not bizarre at all. The prostitute was female, the buyer male. Of course she was the problem!

@Hihothedairyo
OK, but, they ARE consenting. They are getting paid for it, and they are choosing to provide that service?

Define consent - are they consenting if they're addicted? Trafficked? Traumatised through childhood sexual abuse to only value themselves for what they provide to men? Scared of physical punishment from their pimp?

How does a punter establish consent? How many women do you really think choose the risks of prostitution as a free and consenting 'career choice' without alternative options? Think about it

It's seedy but I'd never support it being made illegal, as I don't want to live in a nanny state. If a woman chooses to sell her body, she should have the right to do so. Her body, her choice. If it's a mistake, her mistake to make. I guess I believe in personal liberty even if I don't agree with how someone chooses to exercise their right to do as they wish.

I personally don't believe it's ever a person's only option, I think that's bullshit.

It may not actually be the only choice, but to them, at that point in their lives, it feels like it absolutely is.

Surely you can see the difference?

Crinkle77, as pointed out upthread, nobody has a right to sex. It’s not an entitlement and plenty of people die as virgins. That may be individually regrettable but does not vindicate the abuse of vulnerable women to solve it.

YOU CANNOT BUY CONSENT.

That's called coercion.

It really is that simple

Actually I agree with you OP to a certain extent. I think there is a place for sex workers, for instance for those living with physical handicaps that would otherwise deny them a sex life. Women's bodies and their physical labour is commoditized in all sorts of ways. The real difficulty comes in in determining the degree of agency women have in choosing to take up sex work.

Nope, sorry. You're entitled to your opinion on this but I once found this out about someone I was close to (not romantically) and it totally changed my view of them because I think it shows an attitude towards other people (usually women) that is repulsive.

Quite apart from anything else you never know if the prostitute had been trafficked or coerced, you just decide that the odds are fair enough for you not to care when the possibility is set against your own pleasure.

I understand from friends that the attitude of women living in Amsterdam is similar so I'm afraid I don't think legalisation will help you either!

@HoppingPavlova I’m against surrogacy, I know it’s not a popular opinion but it’s my opinion anyway.