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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask you if you are worried about the new Coronavirus?

999 replies

IvyBush123 · 04/02/2020 06:41

I am not sure if there is reason to worry about the new Coronavirus. I am not a medical expert but to be honest feel a bit scared because we know so little and some experts seem worried. How do you think?

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Florinia · 06/02/2020 22:49

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Cyw2018 · 06/02/2020 22:53

I'm no statistician, but what worries me, is reports in the news and the Lancet seem to suggest it is taking at least a week if not longer for people to die, so if you take todays death total of 565 and divide it by the number of confirmed cases from 7 days ago approx 7500 the percentage of confirmed cases dying is 7.5%, which is not good. If you do the same but for a 10 day lag from diagnosis to death it is 18%...f**k. I just hope that the number of unconfirmed cases is massive!!

I'm a paramedic and a mild asthmatic. I will be on the frontline, it does worry me.

DirtyBlonde · 06/02/2020 23:27

Cyw's link is updated from time to time.

Right now it's showing that there are just over 30,000 cases.

And of those just over 600 have died and nearly 1400 have recovered.

So that leaves most people with what seems like a fairly protracted illness?

covetingthepreciousthings · 06/02/2020 23:59

I am worried.

It's hard to decipher what's real or what's not on social media, but some of the videos cropping up on Twitter are disturbing to say the least. Even the one of Wuhan being 'sprayed', it just looks like it's much worse than what's being reported.

The drone footage of Wuhan as a ghost town is very eerie too, I'm just imagining if that was London, it's hard to believe a whole mega city on lockdown like that.

People keep downplaying it comparing it to flu, or SARS etc, but they didn't have whole cities on lockdown for SARS or swine flu did they? Confused

PotholeParadise · 07/02/2020 01:08

In Germany, a case's wife has caught it, as have two of their children, bringing the total to 13, all connected with one business. The children are reported to only be having very light symptoms.

PotholeParadise · 07/02/2020 01:15

P.S. the children's symptoms are so light that they are keeping the couple's third child, a young baby, with the rest of the family at the clinic. They think the risks of separating the baby from the family outweigh the risk of the virus in infants.

Hellokittymania · 07/02/2020 01:17

Yes, I am. I was doing a lot in Vietnam up until very recently, and they have taken measures against it. The school kids are off of school for an extra week, they have an extra hospital set up, they have close the border for trains going between Vietnam and China. I also received a notice from my dentist in Singapore asking for people to notify them if they had been to China with in the past 14 days… I get sick very easily, and that’s not something I want.

ShanghaiDiva · 07/02/2020 03:55

The figures I have from my China wechat subscription
31k confirmed
26k suspected
638 deaths
1566 recovered

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2020 07:41

Could someone who understands medical statistics explain why they don't seem to be reporting numbers discharged from hospital/recovered ?

They are. But they need to be taken with something of a pinch of salt.

A quick lesson in statistics: they only mean what they say they mean if the are compiled with robust and consistent methodology. In a situation like this, the environment does not lend itself to this, so the statistics will reflect the conditions of the crisis too. You always need to be mindful of this.

It can't be stressed enough how unreliable and political the stats are and how comparing early stats in the crisis with stats later on isn't necessarily comparing like for like.

A lengthy explainer with examples:

We know that there has been a massive bed shortage which has affected how China has handled the crisis and reported cases.

So in terms of the outcomes of who got sick early on and what happened to them - whether they have died, recovered or are still sick we need to be mindful that the later data is not necessarily including the early cases.

There may be people discharged from hospital who are not fully recovered and may not be classed as such simply to free up beds for those who are more sick. These people might just disappear from the stats unrecorded as either dead, critical or recovered at this point. They would have a status of 'unknown'. We don't know methodology so we don't know if this is the case.

The lack of bed definitely needs to be thought of in terms of official diagnosis. They have been deliberately preventing official diagnosis, in part because they have no beds to admit them to.

If there is a massive shortage of hospital beds for those who are severely ill and were not being counted officially until admitted to hospital, you'd expect the numbers of severely ill to have large disproportionate jumps as new beds were opened. This isn't necessarily reflecting an increase in the number of sick due to the infection spreading exponentially, just the number of officially recognised sick. Which does very much backup the claims of massive underreporting by the state. These new beds are not being filled gradually but immediately, and probably not with people with mild symptoms but people who are very sick.

Here's the numbers for the last three updates

3rd Feb

  • 426 fatalities
  • 2,654 in serious/critical condition
  • 576 recovered

4th Feb

  • 492 fatalities (+66) (+15%)
  • 3,219 in serious/critical condition (+565)(+21%)
  • 900 recovered (+324) (+56%)

5th Feb

  • 564 fatalities (+72) (+14%)
  • 3,614 in serious/critical condition (+395) (+12%)
  • 1030 recovered (+130)(14%)

6th Feb

  • 635 fatalities (+71)
  • 4,664 in serious/critical condition (+1050) (+28%)
  • 1337 recovered (+307)(+29%)

Look at the huge rise of reported severely ill today.

Is it reporting more people getting sick or more people being reported as sick as new beds become available?

As soon as new beds are available, they sounds like they have been filled. If that's the case, you would wonder how many deaths have been 'off radar' too. It does seem to back up claims made anecdotally.

Once the number of beds starts to match the number of severely sick the figures should then start to add up better and as the critically I'll people either die or are officially discharged as recovered (and this can be relied on as more accurate because there is less pressure on beds and less willingness to discharge sick people to spread the disease). As time goes on, in theory, the statistics should become both more reliable and meaningful. This is due to better and more consistent methodology. However we always have the issue of Chinese state secrecy to be mindful of.

My point being, that the figures need to be seen though the lens of bed availability and the (lack of) willingness to officially diagnose the sick particularly early on in this crisis. China want to look in control of things but the stats do potentially betray inconsistencies in what they are reporting.

It does look very much at the moment that more people are getting very sick than are recovering, but that's not necessarily the case due to the situation and shortage of beds.

Certainly there is absolutely no sign that this is slowing down though. After a fortnight of lock down, there might have been hopes of this in Wuhan itself but there's not. You have to question whether what happens in Wuhan will be replicated if hospitals elsewhere reach saturation point too.

The stats seem to reveal more than anything else how out of control the situation currently is. And that should be your biggest concern, not the actual numbers you are seeing.

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2020 07:46

Research on deaths from SARS seem to suggest they were often be after 2 to 3 weeks (or even longer). So large numbers of very sick wouldn't be a surprise given the characteristics of this disease being similar in some respects. That doesn't mean that those people will all die either though as this virus is a different one and the way it affects humans is still unknown.

okiedokieme · 07/02/2020 07:54

Remember that the figures are only those with severe enough symptoms to visit a dr. There's evidence that some people are contracting it and not getting sick, or not enough to seek diagnosis. I'm flying tomorrow and doesn't bother me

Mrsemcgregor · 07/02/2020 08:08

redtoothbrush thank you for your considered posts.

With SARS China was very unreliable at reporting correct figures in the initial days of the outbreak. Relations have improved since then and China does tend to be more open than it was then. But like you say; it’s impossible to calculate accurate death rates and recovery rates until an outbreak is over. All the figures we have from SARS, MERS and various flu outbreaks are retrospective and bear little resemblance to figure reporting during the crises.

If the 2 week incubation is correct we should start to see a decline in Wuhan shortly. Lockdown has been in place for 2 weeks now so in theory new cases should be contained until eventually it’s eliminated. That’s the hope anyway.

Unfortunately it doesn’t look like that will be the case.

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2020 08:19

The 2 week lock down won't slow too much as infected people were locked down with uninfected relatives. So slow down (if there is one) is more likely at a month rather than 2 weeks.

In good news / bad news (!) we have a live coronavirus test tube

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-thousands-stranded-on-cruise-ship-as-death-toll-rises-to-636-11928035?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
Coronavirus: 40 new cases on quarantined cruise ship described as a 'floating prison'
A total of 61 passengers on a quarantined cruise ship have been diagnosed with coronavirus, which has killed more than 630 people

Mrsemcgregor · 07/02/2020 08:20

Are they keeping the infected on board or removing them at first sign of fever?

HasaDigaEebowai · 07/02/2020 08:22

I haven't read the whole thread (but will do later). IMO anyone who isn't worried about it hasn't read enough about it.

covetingthepreciousthings · 07/02/2020 08:23

IMO anyone who isn't worried about it hasn't read enough about it.

I agree with this.

Cyw2018 · 07/02/2020 08:34

Another issue with reporting patients recovered, is that many people will have ongoing medical issue (organ damage, post viral cough) even after they are no longer infectious and presumably classed as 'recovered'. So won't necessarily be 'well', therefore there is no point reading too much into the label 'recovered'.

Also, Presumably in order to say for sure someone is recovered from the virus you'd need a series of tests results negative for coronovirus, in a situation where the Chinese labs are under huge pressure I doubt these test are much of a priority, particularly if the patient has to remain in hospital anyway due to their post viral complications, or has already been discharged home due to bed shortages.

GorkyMcPorky · 07/02/2020 08:38

I haven't read the whole thread (but will do later). IMO anyone who isn't worried about it hasn't read enough about it.

I agree. Some of what's appearing on Twitter becomes mainstream a while after and the media seem to be very cautious and slow on their reporting - not hysterical as many love to claim. I have asked my siblings to make sure they have basic medicines in just to delay the need to visit GP surgeries / hospitals or keep on top of symptoms should they become ill. They mostly just laugh at me Hmm

bluetongue · 07/02/2020 08:45

Apparently 61 people have now tested positive on the cruise ship stuck in Japan at the moment. I wonder if it is more contagious than first thought.

woodchuck99 · 07/02/2020 08:52

Also, Presumably in order to say for sure someone is recovered from the virus you'd need a series of tests results negative for coronovirus, in a situation where the Chinese labs are under huge pressure I doubt these test are much of a priority, particularly if the patient has to remain in hospital anyway due to their post viral complications, or has already been discharged home due to bed shortages

I think you're being a bit optimistic. There has been no statement that people are only considered recovered if lab test have demonstrated this. We don't do a lab test normally to decide if someone has recovered from flu and I don't see why this would be any different.

Without doubt the statistics coming from China will be way out at the moment. There could be more recoveries at the same time there could be more deaths many more infections.

At the moment I think we need to look outside of China to see what is really happening to those that are infected what the likely death rate is. So far, although there are only being to death there is a distinct lack of recovery. The German case is a reassuring but were not hearing much reassuring words from other countries. Nobody is saying anything about the two people infected in York for example.

woodchuck99 · 07/02/2020 08:53

being to death two deaths

woodchuck99 · 07/02/2020 08:54

Apparently 61 people have now tested positive on the cruise ship stuck in Japan at the moment. I wonder if it is more contagious than first thought.

Infections always spread like wildfire on cruise ships though. I avoid them for that reason (I am immunosuppressed).

MorganKitten · 07/02/2020 08:58

No, most viruses start as coronavirus, it’s how they look under a microscope. It’s not killed as many people as flu.

woodchuck99 · 07/02/2020 09:01

No, most viruses start as coronavirus, it’s how they look under a microscope. It’s not killed as many people as flu.

We don't know how many people it's killed and we certainly don't know how many people it will kill! We do know that not many recoveries have been reported yet.

Findumdum1 · 07/02/2020 09:09

That's really not true. Coronaviruses are a particular family of viruses that have a characteristic corona or crown shape under the microscope. They are endemic in animals but have only crossed over into infecting humans a few times. This virus is actually called 2019-nCov for novel (new) in humans corona virus first detected in 2019. Its only the 7th known one to infect humans, previous ones being SARS and MERS and the others which didnt cause much issue.

They are completely unrelated to the flu viruses which are from a completely different family of viruses, with different genetic characteristics, called influenza viruses. Hence why comparisons with flu are not really relevant.

This new coronavirus is worrying because it is new and from a family of viruses that doesnt normally infect humans and hence its course and method of action and mortality rate is unpredictable. Hence the concern.