being told by other kids that my DD is annoying

[ilovepenguins79]

This week i have had two separate girls (both age 5 and classmates in reception with my DD) come up to me, looking rather pleased with themselves, to tell me that they find my DD annoying due to the way she hugs (around the neck and we are working on this, she's just a bit unaware of personal space).
I was quite taken aback and responded 'thank you for letting me know, we can all be a bit annoying sometimes can't we?'.
DD can get a bit over excited and forgets herself but (and i know i am biased) i couldn't see her going out of her way to speak to her peers parents about anything let alone something like this.

AIBU to be a bit taken aback by this?

@Bluerussian - I am insofar as that's where I live. My DDs are Lewisham born and bred.

One of the girls did it again this morning - as we were entering the playroom 'DD is very annoying..'. i ignored her.

OP You shouldn’t ignore her. It is unacceptable that your daughter is invading their personal space and touching them against their will, and any children bringing that to your attention need you to reassure them you are doing everything in your power to stop your DD’s inappropriate behaviour.

If you continue down this path of ignoring the children who are indirectly asking you for help what you’ll find is that they’ll get physical back with your DD, and she will get hurt and she won’t like it.

And you know, it won’t be their fault, because they have repeatedly stated they don’t want to be touched like that. With you and your DD ignoring them, they will have little other choice than physically repelling unwanted touching.

If you have 7 in a class you have probably just come across the precocious private school syndrome
That is both a rather silly assumption and judgemental isn't it?
The OP stated that there were only 7 girls in the class. There could also be 23 boys for all we know.
Or she may live in a village with a small school. My children had between 5 and 9 classmates in their years at state primary school. In some parts of the country there would be nothing unusual about year groups around this size in state schools.
Even if the OP's daughter does attend an independent school, these are still just little girls getting to grips with social skills. I doubt the type of school is a major influence on the situation. A wide range of parents choose to educate their children privately and to imply that independent schools are full of precocious brats is unfair.

I grew up in Sydenham which is in the Borough of Lewisham. Frequently went to Lewisham when I was a young'un. Saw the Beatles perform at a cinema/theatre in Lewisham, Odeon I think. It was a buzzy place in the 1960s.

However none of that helps you and your daughter. I spoke about that in my last post.

I hope things improve.

And you ignored the child who approached you in the morning. Why?

Maybe because she's realised it's just manipulative and spiteful behaviour. The teacher's got them sussed, shame some on here can't see through the little madams.

Does sound like it's a more confident child. One who's encouraged to point out flaws in others?

Great that dd is getting high fives and cuddles difference.

I do know the type of child. My friends dd was encouraged to "be honest" to others but amazingly despite the fact she was domineeering and controlling to friends there - of course- was never any fault from her. It was all the other children.

I'd allow it to go like this

"Your dd is annoying"

"Ok, you find my dd annoying. That's ok. You are allowed to think that. My dd finds you unkind and a tale tell" I'd get your friend on board too.

Only 8 girls in DS'' state primary class and about 20 boys. Inner london. Other class in the same year is the same. Must be something in the water...

It was an odd imbalance in dd2's year, and the majority of the class were 'younger siblings'.
Which is nothing to do with hugging!

And you ignored the child who approached you in the morning. Why?
Maybe because she's realised it's just manipulative and spiteful behaviour. The teacher's got them sussed, shame some on here can't see through the little madams.

Whatever happened to 'We Believe You'?
The prevalence of the belief that the person (most often a woman) complaining about unwanted physical contact is malicious and spiteful is what creates the need for campaigns such as this Mumsnet one.

It is unseemly to call a child who has complained about unwanted touch a 'little madam', but it's a commonly used phrase here when describing little girls, and it makes me despair. It's completely uncalled for, and the kneejerk vitriol toward a child as a result of making an adult uncomfortable is very problematic.

Children are taught to report unwanted touch or physicality. When an adult delivers an intentional brush off to a child, what message does that send to the child about what she is being taught, and what to expect from an adult to whom she complains?

When an adult implies and even states outright that the children who approached her were doing so out of malice, talks about the children with another adult behind their backs, and then delivers an intentional snub to a five year old child, it's time to ask questions about deeply held beliefs and their effects.

It is time to recognise that 5 year olds are not women but small children whose motives are frequently far from pure. In addition learning how to touch appropriately is a part of growing up and small children who get it wrong should not be demonised.

Maybe a little respect for the teacher would not come amiss here. She sees the children all day and can probably tell an annoying child from one being bullied by her classmates.

If a child’s mother has not got their back (unless proven otherwise) who can they rely on?!

No, it's time to realise that what we teach 5 year old girls about the world is what they carry with them into adulthood. A deliberate snub of a child who complained about unwanted touch teaches what?

What it boils down to, Larry, is whether you think girls should grow up with the belief that they owe people some sort of tact and forbearance when making a complaint about unwanted touch, and whether you believe the motivations of girls making complaints should always be suspected.

Nobody demonised the hugging child. Hugging around the neck is both annoying and dangerous. A child who does not understand personal space, as @Pictish rightly points out, is vulnerable to criticism and/or being taken advantage of.

The complaining children, by contrast, have had the book thrown at them. They are now bullies, little madams, and the phrase 'confident children' has been used as if it's some sort of crime against society to be confident. A grown adult has freely admitted to discussing the behaviour of the complaining girls with a friend, comparing notes behind their backs, and at least one poster has advised getting another grown adult 'on board', apparently to combat the menace of little girls having the temerity to complain about a practice that is both dangerous and annoying, that the OP freely admitted to be typical of her DD's approach to others - ...the way she hugs (around the neck...

This statement -
I have spoken to the reception teacher and she knew which children had spoken to me straight away and hasn't witnessed my DD hugging like that before but will keep an eye out.

• has now apparently been interpreted to mean that the girls complaining about the unwanted neck hugging are bullies.

The DD hugs around the neck and the OP knows this to be true, but now tries to massage the problem by saying the teacher hasn't noticed it, and many posters are lapping up the narrative that girls who are uninhibited enough to approach an adult must be hell on wheels.

It's no surprise that girls complaining about unwanted touch are transmuted into 'The Problem' by means of the usual dynamic in which women can't win for losing.

It's shocking to see grown women who probably pay lip service to #MeToo holding exactly the same attitudes that have historically kept women from speaking out as adults, and it is sadder than words can convey to see that these girls are going to have to fight exactly the same entrenched beliefs about speaking up, and face exactly the same criticism for speaking up, and the same expectation that they should take the feelings of those to whom they complain into account that generations before them have always faced.

Math,

I am not sure you understand the difference between an adult and a 5 year old.

Unwanted touch and drawing appropriate boundaries is how children learn exactly what you want them to learn. Learning means making mistakes along the way. Babies reach out and grab anything and everything, adults should have appropriate boundaries; going from one to the other is a curve.

The complainers have a teacher to speak to in class if they have a problem, and many appropriate adults around the school. Complaining to a child’s mother about the child’s behaviour in school is an attempt to get the child punished by someone who has no idea what is going on, it is spiteful and vindictive.

My daughter was annoyed and frustrated by another girl doing this - hanging off her, touching, clinging. It's very hard for them to assertively tackle especially if the hugger won't stop. Seems entirely reasonable for them to report and you need to accept that if your child keeps doing this she will alienate and alarm others. Respect for personal space/touching, and listening when people say no is a big deal. Sounds like you know this but it's hard to hear criticism of our own kids.

Great post math. Depressing also to hear the vitriol on this thread against 5yos. A 5yo hugging kids round the neck is 'still learning' but the 5yos complaining in slightly too blunt terms about it are vindictive little madams who deserve everything they get? What happened to them also being 5 years old and still learning? The children are FIVE!! Any adult speaking of a small child as if they were malice incarnate should be ashamed of themselves.

I haven’t rtft but agree with Mathanxiety that these children need an avenue to stop the hugging and may not know the best way, but anyone should be able to say no to hugging and touching.

I can assure you I am perfectly cognisant of the difference between an adult and a five year old. If you want to find examples of people who don't, there are plenty on this thread. They are the ones calling the five year olds 'smug' and 'little madams' and in general gleefully demonising two small children.

You can also find an example in the OP herself of an adult who behaves as if she is conducting a playground vendetta against a rival - roping in her friend to gossip about the two little girls and deliberately snubbing the child who spoke to her. Adults should indeed have appropriate boundaries.

The complainers have a teacher to speak to in class if they have a problem, and many appropriate adults around the school. Complaining to a child’s mother about the child’s behaviour in school is an attempt to get the child punished by someone who has no idea what is going on, it is spiteful and vindictive.
Or perhaps they are confident that a mother would handle a dangerous and annoying habit with gentleness and an eye to the feelings of the hugger? Maybe they have their own mothers in mind and would naturally expect the OP would treat her DD nicely? Not all mothers are wooden spoon-wielding dragons, you know.

Maybe they have given up on the teacher, who hasn't noticed the dangerous neck hugging that has apparently been going on long enough for the OP to note that all the girls greet each other by hugging, and appears to be away with the fairies, and maybe they don't know that many other people in the school or their titles or positions or even where they have their offices or rooms, given that they are five?

Or maybe, just maybe, a mother seems the ultimate authority to appeal to? Again, these children are five. Not fifteen.

...an attempt to get the child punished by someone who has no idea what is going on...

As noted in a previous post of mine, the OP did indeed know what was going on. She mentioned the fact that the neck hugging was habitual and claimed to have been working on personal space issues.

...they find my DD annoying due to the way she hugs (around the neck and we are working on this, she's just a bit unaware of personal space).

She picked up the high fiving really fast all the same.

Please please, do not suppress her personality. Always let her know its ok if some people dont like you or find you annoying. She will find her people and a best friend. And always know her mummy supports her.

Please please, do not suppress her personality
Teaching children to respect personal space isn't suppressing her personality.

Even as an adult, I can't stand touchy feely people thinking they can and should hug everyone. Not everyone is a hug person and I don't give a damn if they want to hug it out with everyone. They need to learn boundaries.

She doesn’t need to change her personality but everyone needs to learn about respecting personal boundaries and five is a good age to start to understand that.

She isn't respecting other children's personal boundaries. They are trying to tell you that. She needs to stop hugging round their necks.

I feel for the girls - when he was in infants my son had a friend who was constantly hugging and grabbing hold of him. Every time I saw them in the playground after school, every party, constantly grabbing hold of him.

My son absolutely hated it. He told him himself to stop it. I told him he didn’t like it and could he stop when he at parties etc. He didn’t stop.

Eventually he was doing it while I was standing talking to his mother who joked “your son is probably sick of x doing that!” I just said very seriously “yes, he really is and he asks him to stop but he won’t”

It did stop in the end, but it made my son really fed up at school break times etc

@LolaSmiles. Completely respecting her boundaries with the hugging thing. Some people dont like it.

I mean dont worry too much about other people finding her annoying in general.

My friends DS had this girl who took a shine to him in his class.

Cute maybe she used to go all smiley at the mention of his name and when she saw him.

That's where it stopped being cute. She got jealous that she wasn't Mary in the school play when he was Joseph and then it came out that she was following him every playtime and running after him and kissing him (on the cheeks) and calling him her boyfriend.

He finally lost it and pushed her over and pretty roughly, he was so sick of her.

They were both 4-5. I can't honestly say I blame him. I bet she was bloody annoying. The mum basically said what do you want me to do about it I'm not there.