To find SOME Brexiteer gloating embarrassing?

[SirChing]

I have read threads saying that we have left and "nothing has happened, just like the millennium bug".

Well, that'll be because we are transition so the No Deal situation has been avoided - for now.

And the millennium bug didn't happen because loads of IT people worked their arses off for years to prevent it.

I have read a rant about us needing new passports for this summer costing £1000, due to remained MPs and civil servants wanting to "punish" leavers.

I am cringing at the level of gloating and "so nerr" posts on here, flinging about bollocks as facts, and celebrating something which noone seems to be able to demonstrate any positives for.

Just me?

It's refreshing to see someone simply admit that is about immigration.

The denials and mental gymnastics that some leavers perform to avoid that is generally tiresome.

To me, what was celebrated on Friday was xenophobia.

A big, fat party to celebrate xenophobia.

I'm from a northern working class backgrounders btw, but I still think it's terrifying. God knows what it looked like to immigrants.

I think anyone who doesn't believe 'feelings' play a huge part in voting doesn't understand human nature or politics very well. Most voters don't study facts, manifestos or detail.

Very true @Violetparis

So many people castigating leave voters for not voting on facts.

Lots of it was about voting for how they wanted their world to feel. People want their country to feel like home. The world is changing incredibly fast and that is disconcerting for some.

I do think that some looked at the ballot paper and ticked the one they liked best, EU or the UK.

The leave vote was a vote for an old idea of 50's Britishness.

I think voting on 'feelings' works both ways though. I voted Remain but don't feel as if leaving the EU takes away my European identity like so many other Remainers do, because the fact is whether we are in or out of the EU we are all still Europeans.

The leave vote was a vote for an old idea of 50's Britishness

That may be the case but how pathetic is that... we are 2020. I'm old and wouldn't in a million years want to go back to those times... urghhh... but I'm not one for rose coloured specs and selective memory!

Yes the world is changing fast. There is a lot of sneering at those who find this hard to cope with.

You're right.

My remain vote was I hope based on facts but also because I like being European. I like being forward thinking. Having been to quite a lot of Europe I think we could learn a lot. I'd love it if we could have clean, efficient cities with brilliant cycling infrastructure. A positive attitude to education. Work fewer hours, have more bank holidays. Just a few things from various bits.

Brexit is likely to make us more like the USA.

It's refreshing to see someone simply admit that is about immigration

In RL the vast majority of leave voters i know admit this, add in misinformation about the control the EU has on our daily lives and where our money goes and its no surprise we, albeit narrowly, voted to leave.

I don't think Johnsons victory was an endorsement for brexit, rather that Corbyn was seen as an unelectable, economy destroying, terrorist sympathiser.

Basically, I think that the vote was about paradigms. Two different cultures.

There isn't a lot of sneering at people who find this hard to cope with. There is just the point that you cannot turn back the clock and get back to how things used to be.

I haven't heard any leave voter, here or in RL say they want a return to fifties Britain and that they can't cope with a changing world.
That twist and turn in conversation came from a remainer assumption upthread.
It's interesting that clean efficient cities in Europe are an EU thing. Perhaps we could model our new found EU free selves on Switzerland. Plenty of possibilities for the future of the UK without resorting to being a US replica.

That twist did not come from a remainer it came from the point that people are making that people voted leave because they don't like how things are changing.

@mykingdom

As analyst surely you're aware of the balance of power between us and the USA? It's obvious surely that any future trade deals will not favour the UK.

We're heading for further Americanisation.

@malylis I know you cannot turn back the clock.
But security is a psychological need. A lot of people no longer have that. Jobs are very insecure, people get made redundant a number of times, unemployment benefit is difficult as benefits people treat you like shit, and people are getting poorer as costs go up and wages don't.
Add to that people feeling their culture is seen as meaningless while other people's culture is to be celebrated. The sneering at English culture. All over Europe populations feel like their culture is under attack. Such as the spanish feeling bullfighting and flamenco are under attack.
The middle class though are always keen to promote and celebrate other cultures.
I voted remain because I read about facts. But I understand why people voted leave.

And I don't want to return to a 1950's Britain. I do want more job security, a better safety net, to feel secure that the NHS and pensions will exist. What used to exist.

It's interesting that clean efficient cities in Europe are an EU thing. Perhaps we could model our new found EU free selves on Switzerland

The english are inherently filthy, littering is seen as the norm, from fly tipping to chucking stuff out of car windows or the crap left outside a takeaway.
Drove down the A388 into Plymouth yesterday, council had cut back the verge, there was more bits of plastic than grass, walking into the city centre, so much litter in gardens, streets and parks.

We are light years away from Switzerland and in any case could have improved our environment long ago.

Jobs are insecure? nothing to do with the EU.

Benefits people? Nothing to do with the EU?

English culture does not get sneered at? Which bit? English football is the most popular in the world. English authors, musicians and actors dominate the international scene. English traditions get celebrated.

Bull fighting has been criticised for decades, from within Spain too.

People voting leave because of the above are going to be very disappointed.

@malylis I know it has nothing to do with the EU. People are voting based on feelings.
And English culture such as Morris Dancing, St Georges flag, etc gets sneered at a lot. I am not even English and I hear it being sneered at.

Yes I know bull fighting has been fought against as cruel for decades. I also mentioned spanish flamenco. My point was that many Europeans feel like they are fighting to keep their traditional culture. This is not isolated to England. And until you understand why this is, I don't think you will ever understand Brexit.

Perhaps we could model our new found EU free selves on Switzerland. Plenty of possibilities for the future of the UK without resorting to being a US replica

And I don't want to return to a 1950's Britain. I do want more job security, a better safety net, to feel secure that the NHS and pensions will exist. What used to exist

These are possibly two of the most naive comments I have read on many Brexit posts. So you want job security, pensions, an NHS, a safety net? To model the EU not USA?
And yet leavers voted for the most right wing tory government in living memory. With the authors of Britannia Unchained at the helm? Are you serious????? They told you before the referendum what they were going to do. They didn't hide it. It was there in plain sight. They called it red tape for business. That red tape is your working rights, your right to maternity leave, annual leave, working conditions etc. To compound this during Cameron's election campaign of 2015 he pledged £12billion of cuts but refused to say where.

The icing on the cake and biggest alarm bell ringing was dePfeffel Johnson's removal of the commitment to uphold our working and consumer rights and environmental protections from the legally binding Withdrawal Agreement and put them in the non-legally binding Political Statement. And still you voted for it and you still expected all of the above to be maintained.
I really want to say that you should be ashamed of yourselves for not informing yourselves better. But that would be condescending, and rude, and patronising, and all the other accusations that we remainers are accused of when we ask for an explanation of why leavers voted to throw away all of our protections and rights.

@bingbangbing
I'm a med tech analyst. It doesn't involve understanding the ramifications of Brexit. I do know of the preparations that have been done in readiness but only from a company perspective.
The balance of power between the US and UK does concern me admittedly (irrespective of what I do for a living) but no more than the concerns I have of continuing in the EU.
I don't think anything about leaving the EU and trading with other countries is obvious though. We simply don't know and I get that is a fear for many.

St George's flag gets flown all the time from pubs,cars etc whenever England play. Its unfortunate that it has been adopted by racists who fly it at their rallies. Morris dancing has been mocked for decades by English people! Are all these people snowflakes? English culture is sacred ?

I do understand Brexit, people voted for reasons totally unconnected to the EU or would be changed by leaving the EU but are expecting change.

stupidity

Being an analyst does require a certain amount of critical thought.

We will end up more like the USA.

the unknown known explained why.

@theunknownknown You have posted 2 comments as if they have been said by the same people, they have not. I voted remain. I did not say I wanted us to become like Switzerland.

@malylis Yes and those who fly the flag are seen as racists. I know morris dancing has been mocked for decades. But English middle class people mock morris dancing and give grants to groups practising Sattriya dancing. It is the double standards people don't like.
But you have to understand how people are feeling. This is about feelings, and you have to understand how these feelings came about.

So in Scotland traditional Scottish culture is celebrated. Local authorities give grants to pipe bands to employ Majors and promote children learning drums and bagpipes. These things matter. Including to those who will never play bagpipes.

Who do you think still does Morris Dancing in the uk? It's not the working classes...

We wont be like Switzerland simply because Johnson is saying today that there will be no close alignment with the EU. Switzerland is closely aligned.
Apparently we don't even need a deal !
No, we will be like a very large, slightly wealthier version of Puerto Rico. Well done.