To leave him to cry 😢

[cadburyegg]

DS2 was one of those awesome babies who slept through from 10 weeks but by the time he was 1 it all went to pot. Before Christmas he was spending the night in our bed every night and we were taking turns to sleep on the sofa as he would only go to sleep if he could take up 3/4 of the bed. For a couple of weeks after Christmas we took it in turns to sleep in his room, but neither of us can sleep well on the air bed so we were still sleep deprived. We have been trying to get out of his room the last few weeks but even when he settles down to sleep (which can take a long time) he wakes as soon as we leave the room.

He is now 22 months and we are doing gradual retreat now but it’s not really working as he just hurls everything out of his cot for attention. I have even left him to cry a few times but he screams for ages. So tonight he woke at 11 and is still wide awake, he’ll probably be awake for another hour then wake up again at 4 and the process starts again. We don’t put him down for a nap anymore during the day anymore but he does go to sleep in the car or pushchair. DH and I do take it in turns to get up with him.

I don’t know what to do and I’m at my wits end, AIBU to leave him to cry tonight?! We are so exhausted.

*work

He needs a proper routine and a nap during the day. If he's falling asleep in his pushchair he is tired. I used to go in, and just stroke the baby's back to let them know I am there but don't pick up. Keep the room dark, no stimulation, no talking, Just stroke them, then retreat. Go back in and do the same every ten minutes until they get the idea. Make sure he isn't too hot or cold, and isn't thirsty and has a clean nappy. Offer a drink of plain water if needed.
Does he have a musical mobile to play with if he wakes early in the morning?

scubadive that's a brilliant book, everyone should read it.

You poor loves. My eldest didnt sleep until 4 years old ... I was so tired ... but my youngest slept thru. No partic rhyme or reason other than, looking back, I v much did the rush to her if she cries because she needs cuddles food or changing and she knew but with my DS I took a firmer approach as I couldn't face another x years of no sleep... it did work for us. Good luck.

My 20 month old doesn't nap anymore 🤷‍♀️ if he has even 5 mins sleep during the day then none of us sleep at night. He will sleep 7pm -7am if he doesn't have a nap. So win win in my books 🤷‍♀️
If he does wake, he gets a cuddle & nappy change (he's usually very wet so that's probably what's woken him) & tucked back in to his cot (tried converting his cot to a bed with a bed guard but he just muck about.) & left. If he grumbles, chatters etc we just leave him. 🤷‍♀️

My LO is a year old in a week. She was a terrible sleeper but I've now got her extendable single bed against the wall and my bed so she can't fall out (and bed turned opposite way so high headboard is down the bottom) she's essentially boxed in, but now she sleeps great because she knows it's her bed, but because it's joined to ours she can reach out to me if she wants-same with getting a cuddle.

She's never been left to cry, or without us. I go to bed at 7 when she does, and watch tv/play around on my phone and occasionally go through to the living room to watch something with my partner.

It's the best decision we've ever made. She went from in the beside the bed crib, to the cosleeping without my partner there, and now she's in her own bed every night.

She still has two 40 minute naps too during the day

What Marshmallow91 said.

Actually a good But short nap makes them better at night time as they're not over tired. Mine napped until 3yrs. And yes, I'd leave to cry for a bit. Your child needs to learn how to self settle.

Not read all the replies but he's awfully young to not nap and going to bed too late. I'd really focus on getting him to sleep for an hour at least everyday around lunchtime then aiming for him to be in bed by 630 with plenty of wind down time before that. That coupled with plenty of fresh air in the day should make things easier. If still issues do the leave for one minute, then 2 etc. Might take a week or so but you'll crack it - good luck

My DD stopped napping regularly at 23 months having previously been a good napper. Despite her stopping napping, if we were at home after lunch, I still put her in her cot for ‘quiet time’ every single day for the next 6 months, or if we were out and about I ensured that DD had an opportunity to nap at the right time, either in the pushchair or car seat. Between 23-30m she would still occasionally fall asleep in the car but that was it.

I would really like some pointers from the numerous incredulous and slightly judgemental sounding posters on this thread who can’t believe a 22m old child won’t nap as to how you get a nearly 2 year old who quite resolutely does not believe in napping anymore to go to sleep?

Even now, at 32m, DD really could do with a nap once or twice a week just as a top up. I feel as though I’ve tried everything as I actually really do believe in the importance of sleep for a developing child to be content and well.

Any suggestions gratefully received...

You're teaching him that when he cries, nobody will come for him. Please don't do that.

Right I’ll try to address most of the questions.. lots of conflicting advice some people saying bedtime at 6.30 others saying 9pm!

Naps- We went out for the day today and got home at 4pm. He slept on the way there and the way home, probably for about an hour in total, he is in his cot bed now but not asleep yet. If he doesn’t nap at all he’s asleep by 7.30-8. That’s just how it is. I did try to explain this in one of my early posts. Napping or not seems to make little difference to his sleep overnight, but it does impact how early he’ll go to sleep. People saying he needs a lunchtime nap and then bed at 6.30 - not going to happen. Trust me I’d love it if it did! My DS1 gave up napping by choice at 18 months.

During the week we can’t nap during the day because we are either working or looking after him and DS1, at the weekends we take it in turns to catch up on sleep.

He gets plenty of activity during the day, we go to playgroups and soft play etc during the week , today he was running around outside with his brother for a couple of hours. He has delayed mobility so is behind his peers but he finally started walking a month ago.

There isn’t enough space in his room for a double mattress and there isn’t space in our room for his cot bed.

The kids eat at around 5pm, tv off at 6pm, then go upstairs at 6.30 for bath and stories, warm milk, get them into bed by 7.30 usually.

We can certainly think about taking the sides off his cot bed and getting a bed guard. I just don’t want to create more problems 🤷‍♀️

Thank you all for your suggestions I need to think some more when I get my brain into gear

I’d experiment with losing the TV just before bedtime.

He is overtired and needs a consistent routine. I agree that sleep training is needed (ignore the typical MN crowd telling you to co-sleep as long as baby wants if him taking up 3/4 of your bed is not what YOU need to get more sleep).

Can you do something a bit more gradual tho? I would do the following:

• build in a regular consistent nap. If at the moment it only happens if he crashes in a pram or car it's probably happening too late in the day thus why he is then up too late. Try 1pm. Read a story first to ensure he is calm & settled. Or walk him in the pram the with a snooze shade over it.
• have a consistent bedtime routine. For now stay with him to embed some other sleep cues without a fight - eg bath, milk, books, songs. If your monitor plays white noise or soothing music turn it on while he is nodding off.
• after a couple of weeks, try one of the consistent strategies, like disappearing chair (google it). He may cry because toddlers resist change and that's ok but stick to one calm consistent method.

Ignore the people saying "You are teaching him if he cries, no one will come for him".

We dont live in the jungle. He is 22m old. He is in a comfortable, familiar, safe place and and understands language. He is old enough to have learned to sleep at night & to trust that you will be there in the morning. You can tell him you are going downstairs and will check on him in a few minutes. Then come back every 10 mins or so until he goes to sleep.

Also if you do whatever he wants when he cries, you are also teaching him that if he cries enough you will always do what he wants. At 22m toddlers do have separate wants and needs and sleeping with mummy or daddy is not a need. An otherwise loved and well cared for child is not damaged for life by not sharing a bed with a parent. I never shared mine with mine and i am a happy healthy well attached adult with a very close bond with both parents.

If you always do what a child wants if they cry, what do you do when they want to eat chocolate/touch a hot stove/ride their scooter without a helmet?

@noidontwatchloveisland
"We dont live in the jungle"...

No WE don't. People do still live in the jungle though. And our sapien western brains dont know that we don't live in safe locked spaces, we still have the same primitive drives we always have.

The only reason we are here today is because our ancestors did respond to their young and sleep close to them rather than just let them cry or get on with it. It's a biological drive that young children want to be close to their parents, it's not something that can be switched on or off because of our lifestyle.

"He is old enough to have learned to sleep at night & to trust that you will be there in the morning"

WRONG! Sleeping is not a learnt behaviour. It is a developmental process and cannot be "trained" per se. Every child is different but even adults wake frequently throughout the night, it is down to brain development that allows us to continue into another sleep cycle; infants and young children often take longer to do this and so wake up and require us.

"At 22m toddlers do have separate wants and needs and sleeping with mummy or daddy is not a need"

Well to our still primitive, young brains it is infact still a need for many children, hence why there is MILLIONS threads on the internet on childrens sleep (or lack of it). It is obviously not conscious but down to our very wiring many young children DO still require night time contact with their caregiver(s).

It's pure biology. Nothing more and nothing less.

As many have pointed out we are social creatures, we aren't meant to live alone and this includes at night too. Children dont just suddenly not need their parents because it's a different time of day. I'm an adult and even I find it hard to sleep alone.

I think it's sad how many parents are dismissive of their childrens needs at nighttime. Yes its exhausting but that's kids for you. Our responsibility to our children doens't just go away because its tiring or inconvenient to us to tend to a very real need for closeness that many babies/young children are biologically designed with, just because the Victorians waltzed in and decided that we should all have separate sleeping spaces from now on doesn't mean it made any biological sense.

Crazyoldmaurice exactly, well said!

We have a biological drive to eat a lot too but we work hard to override it because our environment has changed and we no longer live in a calorie constrained environment.

Human beings success on this planet is hugely based on our adaptability. Children very quickly form habits. They learn at birth to be close to their mother as a source of milk and security. Children who have been sleep trained aren't placed in their cots in a silent, withdrawn state of neglected fear and panic every night! My son at 12m would snuggle happily in his cot, cuddling his favourite toy, very clearly relaxed, smile at me as i tucked him in. No one is saying teach children to sleep alone 5 miles from another human. We are saying teach them that a few metres away in the next room, easily in ear shot, is proximity enough.

Crazyoldmaurice great post.

I'm another whose ds gave up napping at 22 months. However she slept incredibly well from 7-7 and occasionally had a "lie in" once she dropped the nap.
I also have a friend whose ds needed very much less sleep than his peers.
He still does but they're all strapping teenagers now!

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland that's your son, not OPs son. And it's not because of anything you did, it's because of his personality that he was happy with that. OPs son has delayed motor skills, perhaps he has worries or dreams that scare him because his mind is ahead of his body. My little boy gets scared at night because he has a physical disability, not every night but it's important to be kind and to be understanding to children especially if not only possibly but likely that they're having instinctive worries about their body making them vulnerable to harm and their minds are entirely aware of this.

'My son at 12m would snuggle happily in his cot, cuddling his favourite toy, very clearly relaxed, smile at me as i tucked him in..'

Good for you NoIDontWatchLoveIsland but not every child is the same! Maybe if you had a child that needed to be with a parent for sleep at this age you may better understand; every child is different and has different needs and for some that doesnt work.

I do not understand why a mother would not have her child sleeping with her until he decides he wants to sleep separately. It's normal, natural and extremely cosy plus generally parents and child sleep better.

A 2 year old child is still a baby that needs its mum ffs. Controlled crying/self soothing is entirely bs and crying out for your parent and being left alone with no one coming to comfort you, at that age is wrong - if it's for a minute, 5 minutes or whatever.
Just co sleep and get a day bed for your husband if he can't cope sleeping on the sofa -- western society is bizarre when it comes to babies and sleep.