To leave him to cry 😢

[cadburyegg]

DS2 was one of those awesome babies who slept through from 10 weeks but by the time he was 1 it all went to pot. Before Christmas he was spending the night in our bed every night and we were taking turns to sleep on the sofa as he would only go to sleep if he could take up 3/4 of the bed. For a couple of weeks after Christmas we took it in turns to sleep in his room, but neither of us can sleep well on the air bed so we were still sleep deprived. We have been trying to get out of his room the last few weeks but even when he settles down to sleep (which can take a long time) he wakes as soon as we leave the room.

He is now 22 months and we are doing gradual retreat now but it’s not really working as he just hurls everything out of his cot for attention. I have even left him to cry a few times but he screams for ages. So tonight he woke at 11 and is still wide awake, he’ll probably be awake for another hour then wake up again at 4 and the process starts again. We don’t put him down for a nap anymore during the day anymore but he does go to sleep in the car or pushchair. DH and I do take it in turns to get up with him.

I don’t know what to do and I’m at my wits end, AIBU to leave him to cry tonight?! We are so exhausted.

Whatever you do, it's one night (or a few nights) only and will make bog all difference to his emotional health and well-being in the grand scheme of his life, despite what some people on MN might tell you as they angrily wave research done years ago in Romanian orphanages at you.

Do what you need to do and don't be hard on yourself. Tis but a fleeting moment!

Getting up at 06.30 and going to bed at 8pm (without a nap) is WAY WAY too late.

To start with he will be over tired. Overtired kids wake up and struggle to get back to sleep.

He should be going to bed at 6.30pm

I think it's fine to sleep train but you need to pick a method and stick to it. Gradual retreat or controlled crying but not a bit of both. Consistency is key.

Also he really needs a nap.

That said, if he does sleep with you in the room then I would be rearranging things to make it feasible/comfort for this to happen for the time being as I'm all about maximising sleep in the easiest way possible. Proper mattress on floor instead of air bed in his room? One of you sleeping elsewhere on a proper mattress while he shares main bed with you?

It sounds like he's very sensitive to you not being there when he sleeps, as he wakes whenever you leave. You say the air bed in his room is not comfy so neither of you get a good sleep there, so actually my first step would be to organise a more comfortable sleeping place in his room.

Our eldest had a similar sleep phase at 2.5 years when she would only sleep with someone there - one of us slept with her until it passed, and it did pass. The key thing is that we could get a very good nights sleep in her room as decent bedding.

I don't think it's weird for a very young child to want somebody there when they sleep, so I was happy to go with the flow. I read an interview with a woman with Highly Superior Autobiographical Memory where she can genuinely remember being a baby, and she described thinking dreams were real and being very scared when she woke in the night and glad that her mum was there.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20171108-the-woman-who-cant-forget

Can you move him to a toddler bed with a side?
If he sleeps in your bed he may be feeling closer in?
As for the nap thing, my son gave his up at two, it just meant that as he was already an early riser he would go to bed at 6.30 a couple of nights a week, it allowed him to catch up during the transition. Is he getting overtired and that's why he won't settle?

maybe do a really rigid early bedtime routine dinner, bath, bed? Get him down early?

Also did he choose to drop his nap himself? It's young to drop naps completely, and he may get overtired then stressed. At that age I was aiming for an early nap every day by keeping the child active in the morning to tire them out, then getting them to sleep around noon. Late naps I found made bedtime difficult.

I agree with others in that he’s probably too young to be going without a daytime nap and he’s also staying up too late. He’s over tired.

They are overtired.

If mine didn't have naps in the day, they were horrendous at night.

We put them for a nap around midday for a couple of hours, then nothing in the afternoon. Babies like routine.

My health visitor said that in our area they send a nursery nurse out to help if you are still having sleep problems after they turn 1. Is it worth seeing if there is any help available to you?

I wouldn't ever entirely leave a 22m old to 'cry it out' but I would do the method of leaving for 2 minutes then going back, then 3 minutes and going back etc.

That's definitely not enough total sleep though. DD started dropping the nap at 23m and had dropped it completely by 30m but she needs 12-13 hours at night so goes to bed between 6 and 7pm.

He’s over tired. I’d definitely go back to a mid day nap. He really won’t stay awake longer once you get into a routine. He will sleep better.

Given he sprawls out when he’s in your bed, if he’s in a cot I’d move him into a low proper bed & put a gate on his bedroom door.

Make sure his bedroom isn’t too warm and have a window slightly open.

Then return & lay him down and say ‘time to sleep’ the first couple of times, after that no eye contact, no cuddles, just lay him down and leave him...repeat until he goes to sleep...could be 100 times the first night, but it’ll get less each night. It usually only takes a few nights. Bloody awful nights, but think of the long term gain. Inside a week life will be much better!,

I'd say it's over tired too. DS had a 2 hour midday nap until he was 3 and still slept 12 hours at night. His peers have all been similar too.

Do controlled crying. So hug/night night / in cot. Cries for 5 mins so you go back in, hug/night night give it 5 mins of crying then go back in and repeat. I bet by the third night you’ll be going in once.

Actually I take back what I've just said...I did on occasion leave DD to cry at that age for maybe ten minutes but she would be shouting rather than distressed crying.

Non sleepers suck, I have two of them. That sounds very similar to how it was with my daughter. We ended up getting a sleep trainer which made a huge difference, we were so tired, we just needed someone to tell us what to do. She helped us to make gentle tweaks to our routine that really helped. I cannot recommend it enough.

My son has also been a tricky sleeper. He was cuddled/helped to sleep for a long time (he’s now 20 months) and got very upset and angry if we left him. To break this, we’ve allowed him to have a few toys in his bed to distract him, and gradually reduced the support he’s had. If he is happily playing, we leave the room and go back in if he’s getting upset and cuddle through the cot if he wants or a quick pat or whatever. After a couple of weeks, he has started going to sleep without us in the room. It’s taken a while, but I much prefer a gentle approach to sleep training.

I would read ‘the continuum concept’, we and other western countries are too brainwashed into believing that babies should be in their own cot/crib in their own room after 6 months and sleeping through.

Leaving a baby to cry is an unnatural concept. Not sure what size your bed is but we had a super king. We then put a mattress from a crib in between mine and DH pillows and all our children slept like that until they were ready to move into their own cot and then their own room, but in their own time.

I have 4 children and they all varied, one absolutely loved his cot, the others didn’t, one in particular took to hurling themselves over the bars at quite a young age and we had to put him in a small bed which brought it’s own issues.

Teething can wake them at this age, do they have a soother, mine all loved these, one needed it a lot and I mean a lot but they all moved on from them when ready.

I wouldn’t/couldn’t ever leave mine to cry but sleep deprivation can be tough.

He sounds overtired, even as an adult I don't sleep well at all when I'm overtired and struggle to settle.

My two year old seems to sleep worse at night if he doesn't nap but he generally does have 1-3 most days then 7.30pm-6.30am. Might be worth trying to get a post lunch nap in?

We did controlled crying best thing we ever did! Only took about two nights and DD sleeps great now.

Another one voting overtired here. I’ve got a very energetic 2.5 year old who has never needed much sleep, and stopped napping about 6 months ago, but she sleeps solidly from 7.30-8am with no wake ups.

His night sleep is disturbed so he isn’t getting a full night’s sleep. Being overtired causes a cycle of difficulty sleeping & more over tiredness.

I’m not averse to a bit of controlled crying, but would definitely try and sort out some daytime sleep first.

My tips would be:

• try and encourage the same time getting up everyday (say 6.30 if that’s his norm). If he sleeps past this, wake him. It will set the rhythm for your day and help you get into a routine.
• Plenty of time outside and fresh air, running around etc
• Lunch, then down for a nap about 12.30
• Up by 1.30
• Plenty more time being physical, outside ideally
• No screens in the hour before the bedtime routine
• Dinner around 6, with dessert (fruit, yoghurt etc)
• Calm bath and aim for bed about 7.30

If he wakes in the night, just settle him and reassure him in his cot. Don’t bring him into your room or downstairs etc.

I’d try a few nights with the nap and routine in place so you know he is less overtired, then would do some controlled crying.

Good luck!

Whatever you do, it's one night (or a few nights) only and will make bog all difference to his emotional health and well-being in the grand scheme of his life, despite what some people on MN might tell you as they angrily wave research done years ago in Romanian orphanages at you.

This seems very dismissive of research and evidence.

We did controlled crying at a similar age when my DD seemed to forget how to sleep, having previously been an excellent sleeper . It was after trying everything else (DD sleeping with, me sleeping in DD's room, gradual retreat). Nothing worked!! Believe me I tried for months and ended up being a nervous wreck. My DD was also suffering - black rings under her eyes, becoming aggressive, frequent melt downs. The poor thing was utterly exhausted but just couldn't work out how to sleep! I went to the health visitor and broke down in tears (I'm someone who never cries in front of people). She instructed me to do controlled crying. As I'd exhausted all other options I did it. Never thought I could but we were all suffering so much that I had to try it. The first night was awful. DD cried for 1 hour 20 mins. I kept going in every few minutes so she knew she wasn't abandoned but this did make her crying worse. The second night she cried for 10 minutes. By the third night she was fine. She's now 9 and has been an excellent sleeper ever since. I don't regret it for a minute. It was so difficult and I sat outside her room crying too. But so worth it. My DD was a thousand times happier once she'd learnt how to sleep again - no more violence, no more meltdowns. I was human again and a much better mother. I really do believe it was a gift I gave my child.

By the way OP - there is absolutely zero evidence that controlled crying causes any long term issues. It’s a very emotive subject on here and people have strong opinions- but they are just that - opinions.

Decent, solid sleep is vital to children’s development and wellbeing. At the moment none of you are getting that, so I think it’s sensible you are trying to do something about it.

I agree with others that he's over-tired. It sounds counterintuitive but the less sleep they have the more difficult it is for them to sleep. My nan would say "sleep begets sleep". So if he starts napping and going to bed earlier it will help his brain feel more rested and then after a while he'll sleep more easily. My kids don't sleep well at all when they're too tired.