To leave him to cry 😢

[cadburyegg]

DS2 was one of those awesome babies who slept through from 10 weeks but by the time he was 1 it all went to pot. Before Christmas he was spending the night in our bed every night and we were taking turns to sleep on the sofa as he would only go to sleep if he could take up 3/4 of the bed. For a couple of weeks after Christmas we took it in turns to sleep in his room, but neither of us can sleep well on the air bed so we were still sleep deprived. We have been trying to get out of his room the last few weeks but even when he settles down to sleep (which can take a long time) he wakes as soon as we leave the room.

He is now 22 months and we are doing gradual retreat now but it’s not really working as he just hurls everything out of his cot for attention. I have even left him to cry a few times but he screams for ages. So tonight he woke at 11 and is still wide awake, he’ll probably be awake for another hour then wake up again at 4 and the process starts again. We don’t put him down for a nap anymore during the day anymore but he does go to sleep in the car or pushchair. DH and I do take it in turns to get up with him.

I don’t know what to do and I’m at my wits end, AIBU to leave him to cry tonight?! We are so exhausted.

Jesus Christ @Batmanandrobin123 LITERALLY NO ONE HAS SUGGESTED LEAVING A CHILD TO CRY FOR HOURS.

Nap in the pram. It's perfect. You can push them till they sleep if they need it. You can have them facing you and will watch tv or whatever over their shoulder. Mine used to sleep for 2 hours in the pram. They are with you so more relaxed and you can gently wheel them into the hall/ another room if needed.

Little children don't have the brain development to process the situation in any other way than "I'm upset, I need comfort" so they cry. They're not trying to manipulate you.

If you were upset, would you find it an adequate reaction if your husband patted you on the back, said "shhhh" then left the room while you were still crying?

@IHeartKingThistle no need for the capitals, we can all read normal size letters. Plenty of controlled crying involves leaving to cry for hours, even if it's broken by short periods of shush pat nonsense.
Plus the OP said he had been awake for 1 hour 45 minutes and would probably take another hour. That's a long time to be in some kind of distress and awake in the night when all they want is to get into bed with you and go to sleep.
It's a very divisive subject but if you ask on a forum you get ALL opinions and mine isn't that unusual.

Oh god OP I hear you. We tried Everything. Wake to sleep worked well with dd1 as she was younger but dd 2 is a different kettle of fish. She’s three now and still gets in our bed. We have in eventually and bought another bed and dh and I take it in turns to get in it.

It won’t last forever honestly!

Babies and toddlers cry for communication. I’d never leave a child crying ever and would rather have little sleep than have my children know not to cry as no one will come.

OP, my DS had a terrible stage, I was so exhausted I couldn't drive the car some days.

I decided that I'd go into see him but he wasn't allowed out of his cot, I'd cuddle him over the side, hold his hand through the bars but he was staying in his room. I often fell asleep on his floor but then would creep out when he was settled. Took a couple of weeks (and a bad back for me).

Other things: he still naps very well at just turned 2 but a lot of his friends are dropping theirs, either accept they are going or be firm on getting him to nap. What's your bedtime routine? Is it the same every night?

If you were upset, would you find it an adequate reaction if your husband patted you on the back, said "shhhh" then left the room while you were still crying?

If I was doing it every single night, yes.

We did try leaving to cry out but it was so distressing for every one.

I couldn’t bear the thought that my child got used to not crying because she knew no one would come. How much would that effect their brain development.

Dd1 6 only cries now if she’s not well or has had a bad dream I’m glad she knows she can do that and I’ll go to her.

It’s tough and I’m still living that no sleep shit with dd2 but honestly it does get better. Just get a better bed for you or dh to sleep in when he starts crying

Thank you for all youe replies so far, I’m not ignoring them just catching up on sleep this morning. I will respond later when my kids give me a minute!

@AlmostAlwyn i think i maybe would after the 400th consecutive night of the same behaviour? [lighthearted - sort of]

Isn’t the definition of insanity doing nothing to change and expecting the outcome to be different? We had to make some change. We were all broken from the lack of sleep. And then suddenly, a week later, after a year of hell, we weren’t

I really don’t want to set the fox among the chickens but you need to deal with your child’s needs and wants within the consideration of the family unit’s needs.

I remember one of those sleep programmes years ago, where the parents had not a minute to themselves (talk or otherwise) as they couldn’t get their baby to sleep. So sleep guru comes and sort the problem, kid is finally sleeping but it is at that point the parents realise that during that year of putting the child “first” their relationship is dead, they have grown apart so much, they have nothing to talk about. No nastiness involved, they just fell out of love and split by the end of the program.

Your relationship is important for your kid, you need to give both time to your kid and what is happening around him. Because if you split, you will get to OLD and realise the place is full of people with a toddler or two who answer the question “why did you split?” With “nothing bad, we just grew apart”

We did gradual retreat with my son, probably about the same age.
He was in his cot, and he just wanted me there. This wasn’t easy as his older sister was only a year older, so I couldn’t spend an entire night just settling him.
I just started by standing beside him, stroking and patting. Then I’d sit on the floor looking at him. Then I’d sit on the floor, but with my back to him. (This was when I also brought in my kindle and tea!) and I slowly just got further away until I was stood with my back to him, in the doorway. Then I started to hang my dressing gown so he thought I was there
I get that your child needs you, and no-one likes to see a child cry. But sometimes, they do. I’d have been heartbroken if some twat had started harping in about emotionally scarring my children while I was trying to do my best with 2 babies!

After 2 non-sleepers - with a big age difference so as fast as one was sorted, I had a newborn non-sleeper - I have come to believe that what is important is that everyone in the house gets to sleep not who sleeps where and on what.
In your situation I would buy a cheap double bed and cut its legs off (or just a mattress will do), child proof DS's room and put a baby gate over the doorway. Get rid of the cot. When DS wakes up just go and get into 'his' bed, no talking, just into bed, snuggle, sleep. If you wake again and decide to go back to your bed to sleep leave your dressing gown there. If you don't wake, all well and good, at least everyone has had some sleep and the cycle of back-breaking exhaustion is being broken down. Everything in life is much easier when you are not operating on headcrunching sleeplessness. Take sleep over all.
If at all possible, I'd facilitate a nap around noon, even if this meant in the car. Over tiredness can lead to disturbed sleep patterns which lead to disturbed sleep patterns and then you're in the cycle. A walk in the chilly fresh air late morning, then a picnic lunch at the car, then a drive home (with nap).
One day in the not too distant future you will suddenly jump as you realise he hasn't woken in the night once in the last week - it sort of creeps up on you. Like putting their socks on for them, helping with teeth cleaning, mastering the tv remote, all these things happen almost without you noticing.

@RubaiyatOfAnyone Isn’t the definition of insanity doing nothing to change and expecting the outcome to be different?

I didn't suggest not changing anything. Obviously something needs to change. But I think there's more sympathetic ways to deal with the situation than leaving the baby to cry.

Put the cot in your bedroom they want to be close to you and know they're safe.

Hi Op! We do a mixture of the Ferber method and also staying with our DS depending on the situation

If he just needs a quick comfort to know we’re there and will come to him if he cry’s, we absolutely do that.

But it was getting to the point where he’d want us in the for minimum 2 hours and at the worst point this was 4 hours. I’m heavily pregnant so this just isn’t possible now

At this point I started using the Ferber method when the wake up exceeds half an hour (and hes obviously not ill or teething etc, it’s only used when he’s fully well). I go in for 2 mins, settle him, leave for 3 mins, go back in for 2 mins (resettle), leave for 5 mins and so on

It works for us and he’s never left for long. I’m usually the other side of the door with the monitor watching what he’s doing. Sometimes we get up to 9 mins of me being out of the room...sometimes less

You have to do what’s right for you and your child

My little girl is younger than your son, but I notice if she doesn't nap enough in the day we have a rough bedtime as she's over tired, is it worth trying to get a nap in in the day? he does seem quite young to be getting up at 6:30 am and staying awake until 8pm on top of a broken night's sleep. I would struggle with that, and I can drink coffee 😂

I would get into a routine whereby he has lunch at 11:30 then you put him in the buggy and walk until he is asleep. It won't take long before a nap becomes part of his routine again and I really think it will help. Does it matter if it pushes his bedtime back a bit initially?

Dc would go between own bed and ours but mainly slept in middle of me and dh from 14 months until 2 and a half. DC actually wanted to sleep in own bed eventually and sleeps through every night now and will actually ask to go to bed!
Everyone said it would cause a habit we wouldnt be able to break but in fact it simple instilled dc with lots of comfort and security. I dont believe in cry it out for young dc and think it can actually be counter productive.

I think some babies take to sleeping on their own well. The other sort need to be close by and will probably prefer this even more if they have been breastfed. I just don't think you can train these kids to sleep how you want them to. I would say bring a toddler bed into your room if possible, or cosleep. It's not ideal I know, but after a nightmare with my first son who refused to go to bed anywhere but mine, I chose to cosleep with my second son from the off. Other half sleeps in second bedroom with first son in their own beds. I think this way we all sleep better, as my second son is still waking for feeds at 10 months, and we don't have to deal with first son waking up constantly, as he is used to sharing. I'm hoping with second son the process of transitioning to sleeping in his own bed will be easier as he has big brother to share with.

You will be surprised how many people cosleep with kids. People just don't like to admit it much of the time as it's frowned upon. Just do what gets you the most amount of sleep. If you have a toddler sized bed cot, you could always take the side off and put it next to your bed if it is safe. This didn't work as well for us (first son was a snuggler), but has for others.

'After 2 non-sleepers - with a big age difference so as fast as one was sorted, I had a newborn non-sleeper - I have come to believe that what is important is that everyone in the house gets to sleep not who sleeps where and on what.'

Exactly the above. Getting sleep is so important and if that means all in the same bed than so be it. They arent little for long and enjoy those precious cuddles while you can aswell
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Dc1 now sleeps beautifully in own bedroom and has done since 2 and a half. My friend sleep trained her dc and let him cry it out which seemed to work as a baby but now as a toddler she has to gate him in his room as he will constantly get up and run wild.

I think you should do what feels right for your family and certainly not blame yourself in any way for having a child who sleeps better when they are close to their parents. I also think that you have to adapt to them to some extent. Looking at your post , I would aim for a day time nap and a bedtime routine. I would also put a bed into your bedroom if it will fit, and let DC sleep there. My 2 older children were both out of a cot by that age , DC1 because DC2 needed it and DC2 because they started clambering out at about a year. They slept together in a normal double bed.my DC3 slept in our bed for much longer; he would go off in his own bed ( in our room) after a story and a prolonged patting session and climb in next to me during the night.i don't really have the stamina for prolonged wakeful spells at night. My middle child was a great sleeper from about 6/7 months however, reading this post, I am very aware that he always slept with someone else in the room so maybe that was a factor! DC2 and 3 didn't always have someone to share wit h apart from me.

We did controlled crying with DS1 (we have 3 DS now). It took 3 nights and he knew we would come back if he needed us. I think he just had separation anxiety. We had the same routine every night. Story time, sing a few songs, and then I’d leave some nursery rhymes or a story book on cd to play with a small light and exit the room. He has anxiety even to this day, and I think that’s what it was even back then.

I saw a few posters say, settle, leave for x amount of time. So we did 2 mins/4 mins/10 mins/15 mins/20 mins. Never got past that and he realised he was ok. Doesn’t always worn though, you just have to find what works for him and you. Good luck x

Another one saying do controlled crying. It's not doing your ds any favours developmentally by him being so sleep deprived. So look it up, do it properly, 3 nights if you're lucky, a week if not, sorted. Game changer.

In my experience gradual retreat / disappearing chair is more cruel, it just drags things out and they don't understand why you're sat there ignoring them. It gave both my kids the rage!

I also really think he needs either a nap or to go to bed much much earlier. If he's up at 6:30 i would say put him to bed at 6 at the latest. He will be asleep deprived at the mo, his body will be releasing cortisol which will make him fight sleep and contribute to his night wakings.