To ask those in favour of Scottish Independence to join together to renew our hopes for the future

[hadenough]

At 23:00 on the 31st January, Scotland will be dragged out of the EU against our will.

Scotland did not vote for this. Scotland does not want this.

Now we're told by Boris Johnson that our voices will be silenced. Apparently, Scotland must remain in the UK, and the right to express our will to be independent will not be 'allowed'.

On Wednesday we saw the Brexit Party wave union flags, and embarrass the whole of these islands. I don't want to be a part of it.

So now, we will no longer be a part of the EU, and we're told we should shut up and get on with it. I won't.

It will be a truly depressing moment for me to see Scotland dragged out of the EU.

But I hope with this, we can all come together in Scotland and have a renewed focus on campaigning for independence, and ultimately righting a wrong.

Shall we do an experiment? Shall we start a thread in AIBU asking for people who oppose independence to come together, and see who turns up?

We have general elections and fixed term parliaments to decide who governs us. Referenda are quite different. Unless of course you think we should also revisit the indy question every four years, even if it goes your way.

@MorrisZapp in all seriousness please do, I'd be genuinely curious to see who posts.

Again no we were not allowed a rerun of the advisory referendum you are not allowed a rerun of your binding one you were told it was once and once only yes you were lied to so were we no one cares

If you were that bothered you would have all voted leave and petitioned to stay in the EU

I have always to chuckle at the “sod off, you had your vote!”
But it wasn’t so long ago that everyone was clamouring for a 2nd vote at Brexit! That’s a big bit hypocritical.

slipperywhensparticus but things change. I wasnt particularly pro Indy at the time. With Brexit and the lurch to the right from the Tories I've completely changed my mind and I'm far from the only one.

And what's with this "you were told" shite? We're supposedly equal partners in the Union not wayward bloody children.

After the brexit result lots of people were saying it should have required a majority of say, 60% to trigger such a huge constitutional change. Nats were whistling and looking the other way on that one.

@VideographybyLouBloom

Have you read the accession criteria? Which doesn't Scotland meet?

political criteria: stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;

economic criteria: a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces;

administrative and institutional capacity to effectively implement the acquis (EU legislation) and ability to take on the obligations of membership

Unless of course you think we should also revisit the indy question every four years, even if it goes your way

If there was a will for it, and the people voted for a party with that aim, and that party got into power and passed legislation for it, then why not. It's called democracy

Voted No/Remain. I am sick to death of the SNP. You'd think no-one in Scotland voted Leave, no-one in Scotland voted Conservative. Another independence referendum will cause more instability. Their arguments for independence are freakishly similar to brexiteers arguments for leaving the EU.

I don't trust any of the figures/claims the SNP make with regard to an independent Scotland. They have consistently lied/fudged - have a look at their stance on gender recognition or named person legislation. They will not listen to any dissenting voices - Stepford SNP.

To those saying you don't have to be an SNP supporter to want independence, OK, but it's the SNP who are pushing the agenda, and providing the 'facts' and figures to try and persuade people Scotland should be independent, and I don't believe the figures. In fact it's quite easy to find information that counters the SNP claims.

Nicola Sturgeon frequently calls Boris Johnson arrogant. Bit of pot/kettle action going on there.

What about the 2,001,926 people who voted NO in the indy ref

These people don't matter to the SNP, if your opinion doesn't suit their agenda it is irrelevant. Apparently the other half of Scottish people don't matter, or the 40 odd percent that want to leave the EU.

Never mind the fact that Edinburgh is now more congested than London due to SNP neglect to our road systems and would rather install a headline grabbing tram system.

Definitely not a party of the people - and they don't speak for me. I wouldn't be against independence if that's what the vast majority of people wanted - but I don't trust the SNP to run a bath!

What @Caplin said.

Also it seems incredulous that because we are pissed off with the thought that we will have a hard border between NI and I we want to protest to that by putting a hard border between Scotland and England and Scotland and NI.

Ferry’s only Scotland would be finished and the southwest and south of Scotland would be decimated, but yes let’s only think of the central belt, as usual.....

Pro Scotland independance logic: Leaving the political union of the UK is deciding our own fate, sovereignty, forward looking, not racist in anyway towards the english. The UK voting to leave the political union that is the EU is racist, disastrous, isolationism etc.

I've yet to hear an argument that convinces me that somehow voting for leaving the UK is any different/morally better to voting for leaving the EU. People voted on whether they believed in staying in certain political unions. But no, I'm told people didn't vote to leave the UK due to hating the english yet everyone who voted for brexit hates all europeans .

I'm Scottish and believe that an independant Scotland in the EU would be disastrous. But thanks Nicola Sturgeon for telling everyone how I'm not being listened to.

I'm not sure if you are aware, OP, but there are shit loads of English people who voted remain, are absolutely devastated to be leaving the EU but have had to accept that's what democracy means. My local authority voted to leave - can we stay in the EU? No? Why? Because we're part of one country. If the scots want to leave that country then please do. But stop sticking two fingers up at the English like we're an inferior race forcing you into things you don't want to be doing. Have your referendum. Leave the UK. Re-join the EU. But devolution means devolution. No finance sharing. Let's see how long free prescriptions and no university fees last then. Enjoy your higher tax rate.

What about the 2,001,926 people who voted NO in the indy ref

Details, details. Misguided people who clearly aren't properly Scottish because if they were, they'd be worshipping Saint Nicola like all good, obedient nationalists. Traitors, quislings, probably Conservative voters too. Don't worry about what they say/think - the SNP certainly doesn;t.

I've yet to hear an argument that convinces me that somehow voting for leaving the UK is any different/morally better to voting for leaving the EU

This. I really get why you'd be annoyed if you live in Scotland and are being dragged out of the EU against your will. But so am I in the south of England. So are many people in Wales, not to mention the 94% or so who voted to remain in the EU in Gibraltar and nobody gives a flying wotsit about them. It makes me very angry that my son won't have the same opportunities that I had (unless Boris does an about turn and we join EFTA or something).

And of course Nigel Farage and his ilk are an embarassment.

But if you think Brexit is full of rancour and complications, what do you think unentangling Scotland from the rest of the UK would be like? It will be far more damaging to both sides than Brexit is.

I think Scotland should bide its time. See what happens. See if Boris "red wall" supporters are still with him in 5 years' time. Remember 2 million Labour voters stayed at home, if they come out next time the result could be a bit different.

@StepAwayFromGoogle.

Well said. I completely agree.

If ever you needed proof that Farage is a cnt you’ll find it in his recent unveiling of a portrait of himself in a (French) restaurant where he was ably supported by that great British patriot Jim “Chalky the N*r” Davidson. Let’s hope he now follows BFF Jim’s patriotic example and fucks off to live in Dubai because he can’t stand all the foreigners in Britain.

VideographybyLouBloom

You’re ignorance is staggering

Economists all agree that an independent Scotland with its 8% deficit, no currency reserves, (indeed no currency either!), unable to afford to underwrite its huge financial services sector, all of which would have to move to London to retain the Bank of England as lender of last resort, losing the £12 billion a year subsidy under the Barnett formula- would be vastly worse off than staying in the U.K.
Independence would mean large tax rises, a big increase in borrowing (by a new country with a junk bond credit rating and no track record except deficit) and huge cuts in benefits, pensions and NHS funding.
Scotland does NOT meet membership criteria for the EU (sorry to the PP who falsely claimed that we do) - new members must have a deficit below 3%. We would need a decade of savage austerity three times worse than Greece to achieve it.
It’s high time the SNP admitted the truth- they want independence for selfish reasons, to get on the gravy train of high salaries and power for themselves. Their poor population would be utterly screwed.

Understand the sentiment, but would probably be v hard to meet EU criteria for entry.

London voted remain and could well have a better chance of meeting the criteria!

Everyone in the UK who voted remain is “being dragged out of the EU”.

@Babdoc actually, if you look, I listed the criteria for accession to the EU above. Nowhere does it mention anything about a deficit. But perhaps you're confused with the criteria for joining the euro? But Scotland would not have to adopt the euro either, following the example of one third of EU members.

Just to pick up on one false piece of information from the list of fallacies in your post - and I don't know how many times supporters of independence (or indeed anyone who knows anything about Scotland at all) have said this - but Scotland is not in receipt of a "subsidy" from England. Scotland sends all its taxes to Westminster and receives a portion back (some to spend how it wants, some ring-fenced). Yes, there is a slightly higher spend per head due to geography, nothing to do with a struggling Scotland needing a helping hand by oh so helpful Westminster.

You seem to know an awful lot about what independence will definitely mean for Scotland. Where are your references?

Well people have argued for many decades about the Barnett formula for allocating government funds within the UK and what it means for Scotland, England etc, that’s a whole can of worms! My personal view is that it’s disadvantageous to England.

Almost always- I thought it was a condition that all new countries had to join the euro.

From Wiki
All EU members which have joined the bloc since the signing of the Maastricht treaty in 1992 are legally obliged to adopt the euro once they meet the criteria, since the terms of their accession treaties make the provisions on the euro binding on them.

@twooter how do you explain the 8 countries (excluding the UK) who don't use the euro? Are you really suggesting the likes of Sweden and Denmark don't meet the criteria?