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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

1000 replies

mrsmootoo · 29/01/2020 16:53

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

OP posts:
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AutumnRose1 · 29/01/2020 17:40

mindproject “ I don't have any idiots in my life who voted Brexit apart from a few people I have to work with”

You might not know. I keep quiet because if I’d been honest, I’d have been sacked from the job I was in in 2016 and then probably from my current one.

I’ve had friends say ”anyone who voted for Brexit can get out of my life now”. So I’ve lost touch with them but didn’t say why in case it gets back to current boss, old boss for references etc. I’m a Londoner. A lot of people feel like you.

No, I’m not going to say “I voted for Brexit” to people who will not listen and will not forgive me or see any middle ground.

Equally, I’ve felt a lot of racism from people saying “I don’t understand why an ethnic minority would vote for Brexit”. I feel like they’re saying “you’re not REALLY British” and I find that upsetting and offensive but I keep quiet and try to hear all views.

nobodyimportant · 29/01/2020 17:41

unelected layer of dictatorship

I'm just watching all those "unelected" MEPs that we voted for leaving the EU parliament full of MEPs people voted for.

PlanDeRaccordement · 29/01/2020 17:41

You are welcome back anytime! The U.K. could always rejoin the EU in future.

Yarboosucks · 29/01/2020 17:42

I am with you OP. I am a European Citizen and I passionately hate the that my citizenship is being ripped from me.

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 29/01/2020 17:43

Farage liked us to think that we don't vote for anything to do with the EU because he liked taking the money and rarely turning up for the job that he was voted in to do.

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 29/01/2020 17:43

when we all end up in Hell

definition of hell: a place regarded in various religions as a spiritual realm of evil and suffering, often traditionally depicted as a place of perpetual fire beneath the earth where the wicked are punished after death.

It’s just hard to take some remainers seriously when spouting stuff like this - it’s so hysterical.

AutumnRose1 · 29/01/2020 17:43

OP “ Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.”

If these are your concerns, you are lucky, it’s not like being concerned that your children are competing with EU candidates for a minimum wage job.

ilovesooty · 29/01/2020 17:44

And as soon as a concrete campaign to rejoin emerges I will be giving my energy to that.

MasakaBuzz · 29/01/2020 17:44

@nobodyimportant.

The government had far more funding than Leave. How much do you think the leaflet that was sent to every household in the country cost?

Does it ever enter Remainers heads that one of the reasons Leave won was because the campaign for Remain could not give good enough reasons to Remain?

BoxedWine · 29/01/2020 17:44

Nothing the OP has said is nasty feellikeanalien.

But how many people saying "they've taken away mine and my children's rights to live/work in the EU" were ever actually planning on doing so? There will still be routes to work in the EU if that is what someone wants to do. My mother came from a different European country back in the 60's and worked and got married here, long before the EU was ever formed!

Um, do many people plan out whether their children will use their free movement rights? Most people on here have minor children, it's quite hard to make plans that far ahead for them!

Also, the fact that visa systems will still exist for British people to access really misses the point. There's zero suggestion that the current freedom we currently enjoy will continue to be available to us in any EU country other than ROI. That's an extremely significant change. You mention work: that was not the only thing British citizens utilised free movement to do. There are going to be British citizens who would be able to relocate under FOM if they wished who won't when that right is lost. It's important not to downplay the significance of this change.

Havingthetimeofmylife · 29/01/2020 17:45

If only we'd all been so exercised over the 2011 referendum - you know, the one that actually might have made a difference to how representative our democracy is!

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 29/01/2020 17:45

Keep reading-

a situation, experience, or place of great suffering.

IvyTrails · 29/01/2020 17:47

Brexit is ushering in Fascism. Hence my use of the Naomi Shulman quote. We meet most of the criteria below.

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt
Spring 2003
Free Inquiry magazine

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism (tick)
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights (This is on the way - obviously not torture and summary executions but military control is ready for case of civil disorder. See the Yellowhammer and Black Swan government reports.) We are blaming and disregarding the rights of EU27 citizens here, UK citizens on the continent. Members of cycling and environmental groups are now counted as domestic terrorists. Protection for LGBTQ rights come from EU legislation and many on theright would be happy for those rights to go.
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause (tick)
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military (Provision has been made for this)
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism Return of the 50s housewife, call for lessening of abortion rights. Homophobic comments from our prime minister
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media (tick)
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security Interesting one this, with Johnson still refusing to release the reports on Russian intervention in recent elections and the referendum
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected With a government whose stated approach seems to be fuck business, this seems on the face of it not relevant. Yet we have corporate funding of the tories is on a large scale. Businesses that will benefit from deregultion
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed (tick)
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts (tick)
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption (tick)
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections (tick)
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

nobodyimportant · 29/01/2020 17:47

Hitler's party had 40% of the vote.

Not a dissimilar percentage to Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (man of the people).

thecatfromjapan · 29/01/2020 17:48

It's a bit heartless of me but ... I've realised that it's going to be kind of funny.

It's happening. The people who really wanted it have it. It's not my responsibility.

And it is going to be a tragi-comedy.

I would suggest digging in for the long-term (20 years) & just silently laughing at the mess.

But, yes, I feel sad thinking of the investment that won't come, the lowering of living standards and the lost opportunities.

But ... it's not my responsibility. It isn't.

So I intend to just watch the mess, grit my teeth about the bad stuff, and just laugh wryly at the idiocy of it all.

ManonBlackbeak · 29/01/2020 17:49

I can’t wait to tell them ‘I told you so’ when the shit hits the fan and they all start whinging, because they will.

FaFoutis · 29/01/2020 17:49

YANBU
When leave voters suffer the consequences there will be no sympathy from me.

IvyTrails · 29/01/2020 17:49

Agree with a previous poster that the remain campaign was rubbish. I've seen Mike Gallsworthy of Scientists for Europe describe his frustration at how input from grassroots groups was rejected from higher up the chain.

TheRealMcKenna · 29/01/2020 17:51

@chocolateteapot20 I voted Remain! I was absolutely gutted when the result came out, but it never occurred to me in the first year or so that we wouldn’t leave, so I set out to find out why people voted that way.

I would definitely recommend the Triggernometry podcast/Youtube channel for some really good interviews with key people who either supported or predicted the Leave vote. In particular, I’d recommend their interviews with:

Matthew Goodwin (2 interviews)
David Goodhart
Paul Embery
Kate Hoey

I’d also recommend the book The Road to Somehwere by David Goodhart.

Jaxhog · 29/01/2020 17:51

As a remainer, I sympathize. But what's done is done and we just have to make the best of it. We can't change it, so we just have to move on.

This quote might help:

'God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.'

heartsonacake · 29/01/2020 17:51

YABVU. You can whine about your “lost children’s futures” as much as you want, but this will be better for them and you, and one day you’ll realise it and see what a tit you’ve been.

littlepaddypaws · 29/01/2020 17:53

worrying about anything is a waste of energy, far better to use that time trying to do something positive, whining and crying doesn't solve anything although it might make you feel better for awhile the situation is still there.
i'd rather be living in a post brexit britain and feel safe than many places in the world with wars, famines and disease. we are very fortunate to live here. anyone who thinks otherwise that's their opinion.

Classof66 · 29/01/2020 17:54

If all the remoaners had decided that they would accept the democratic verdict and get behind those trying to get a good deal,we would be in a far stronger position than we are now.Have you never heard "United we stand,divided we fall" ? The EU could see the divisions,weakening our negotiating position.
The EU is a corrupt,undemocratic,wasteful organisation which caused the war in Ukraine because when the latter wanted to get close to the EU,the Russians would not have that,hence their actions.
It will,eventually implode,mainly because of the economic problems that the euro will cause.
Oh,and BTW it has not kept the peace in Europe,NATO does that.

MasakaBuzz · 29/01/2020 17:54

@ilovesooty

Perhaps Leavers will accept their victory with a modicum of grace, when Remainers accept their loss with equal grace?

nobodyimportant · 29/01/2020 17:55

The government had far more funding than Leave. How much do you think the leaflet that was sent to every household in the country cost?

If you disregard the illegal overspending by leave campaigns. Not to mention the billionaire owned, pro-Brexit, right-wing media (who clearly have the best interests of the poor and vulnerable at heart).

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