to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

[mrsmootoo]

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

LaurieMarlow

I have not disputed the demographics of those that voted either way.

But when this is brought up it always stinks of not being democratic in that you are others are inferring that not everyone should have the right to vote.

And some remainers have said it outright on various threads.

Plenty of leavers think it's fine for Britons like me not to have a vote.

I'm relatively resigned and rational about Brexit now on the surface but there is still an undercurrent of anger at people who voted to take away my rights (including my father) and I don't think that will ever go away. It's not right or clever, but every time I read about a British company in a leave/Tory voting area making people redundant, a small part of me smiles and thinks "next time, be more careful what you vote for".

But when this is brought up it always stinks of not being democratic in that you are others are inferring that not everyone should have the right to vote

A) I didn’t bring it up

B) I got involved when thread when posters were refuting the patterns in the data, making silly points about dance therapy degrees, confusing reporting of the data with value judgements. I challenged those.

C) I have never, on this thread or anywhere else, said anything even close to ‘not everyone should have the right to vote’ and I’m getting pissed off that it’s being suggested. If you want to throw that accusation at me, you’ll have to find posts from me that back it up. They don’t exist.

Interesting to finally hear some of the benefits of Brexit being outlined by the banking interviewee on the Today programme at 6am this morning. Lots to look forward to. Here are the benefits from his perspective:

• freedom to lift the cap on bankers’ bonuses - because too many people see banking as something to fall into if you can’t get into private equity;
• no longer being bound by EU capital adequacy tests - because this is not a nanny state and businesses should be free to borrow and grow, and banks should be free to decide what to lend them;
• much more freedom to offer people mortgages, because everyone in the uk should get the chance to own a home if they think they can pay for it.

It’s refreshing to see some honesty. I expect we’ll hear a lot more along these lines, now that there’s no need to pretend anymore.

Some of the counter-arguments here are like talking with my shit-for-brains-leave-voting DM and PIL! I'd love to find a coherent argument for voting leave, I really would. But I'm yet to find one that stands up against analysis and fact-checking. But in the end it doesn't matter. Today is VE-Day. The Neanderthals are celebrating & burning flags, and people are completely unconcerned that they represent the side they're on. Not my problem, frankly. I don't have to own anything and I didn't cause it.

freedom to lift the cap on bankers’ bonuses

Interesting. Was this what leavers voted for I wonder?

I'd love to find a coherent argument for voting leave, I really would

Gove was asked a few minutes ago on BBC1, he said we can innovate as the EU stops that! this means we can feed the world! (even more absurd) that we can level up the regions of the EU and we can attract the best and brightest from around the world..... like we couldn't do this before.

How the fcuk he can say all that without, at the very least cracking a smile, is beyond me.

So, still no benefits.

The people I know personally who voted out were - foreign born (outside the EU) nationalised British citizens and working class ‘too many foreigners here’ types (but want to retire to Spain and don’t speak Spanish .

Not people who ran businesses or academics or NHS workers.

This is just my experience (in London).

I fully expect my sister to spontaneously combust today. She has been getting rather ranty in Facebook.

When you vote , you make your choice.
You put your X in the one space you feel most aline's with a way forward you can live with for five years.
This last Election the Tory's said they would take us out.
At the next election the parties will move forward on where we are at that time, I for one will celebrate that DC offered a non EU future and today it happens.
I do not need to be a Prime Minister or a Member of the Cabinet, that is not my job.
Nor do I need to answer questions on what will happen.
We are not suddenly going to be a bankrupt island, who can't import food or goods.
So I will willingly raise a glass to the future.

Gove is shameless

@BritneyPeedOnALadybug

Dance Therapy is a legitimate course you can gain a qualification in from university, is it not? It’s a perfectly legitimate response to the argument that those that are “educated”, studying Dance Therapy, as one example, who voted remain are “better” than people that voted leave who didn’t go to university

This has to be one of the most absurd arguments I’ve read on this thread. What a load of bollocks!

Taking the Tories at face value for a moment - they have been lent the working class vote as a consequence of Brexit - if they attempt to actually fulfil their current rhetoric on levelling up in a roundabout way the leave vote will deliver what the working classes wanted - some funds going their way...but is anyone really expecting the Tories to really attempt to level up?
I don't know many leavers - one voted leave because Boris was funny - she didn't expect leave to win, regretted being so flippant. The other who's a civil servant felt that Brussels was too wasteful - I expect many people feel the same of civil servants!
I don't hate leavers, I don't blame them as such - I see them in much the same way as I see Tory voters...slightly suspicious of them.

Good for you Mummy2017, i don't expect any leave voter to explain any benefits but i do expect a senior minister to come out with something a little better than "we can now feed the world" because that begs the question "why haven't the many other countries not in the EU done this earlier"

Its just a load of crap, just like his claim that the EU shut down his parents fishing business, they sold it for over £1m.

Or maybe as one leave voter just said "i'm married to a German, if it all goes wrong, i'll move over there"

@BritneyPeedOnALadybug

Apologies @Britneypeedonaladybug. I realise you were giving dance therapy as as example of being educated, therefore better.

When I first read it I thought it was your actual opinion. Accept my apologies.

Your point is absolutely bang on. The notion that remainders are more intelligent and therefore better is absurd.

Many people are so bitter on this thread. There’s one woman who wouldn’t be friends with someone who voted leave. That’s taking it to the next level 😳

Posts on social media are really aggressive. ‘You lost, get over it.’

That is a response to an aggressive or in some other way antagonistic social media post. I see very little of that sort of thing that is completely unsolicited or unprovoked. When I see it it’s almost always purely reactive. In stark contrast, the Remain side just keep on going onSM with their deluge of insults, slurs, bile, spite, anger, bitterness and hatred.

I imagine people who voted leave are feeling pretty sick to the back teeth of having to read that sort of thing. Sick of being called thick and racist. Their vote carried just as much weight and deserved to be heard every bit as much as yours did and you really do need to try to get over it and move forward now. There is fuck all to be gained by this endless whining. Shit happens that we don’t like. Life isn’t all win win. Find a way to get past it and make the best of it.

It's a sad day today. We're leaving the EU. However we are not leaving Europe and we are still all Europeans. I can't get on board with wishing ill on people who voted differently to me. Let's hope that Boris gets a decent deal for the country.

People are talking as if we are no longer European and no longer have the right to travel, work, live or study in Europe or marry a European. It’s hysterical nonsense. All of that stuff is still possible. It always has been and always will be.

We haven’t left Europe, that’s a physical and geographical impossibility. Let’s stop talking as if the UK is suddenly on the moon.

Does Boris actually care about getting 'a decent deal' for the countries in the UK ? I am not entirely sure he does or even has it in his power, if truth be told. To get a deal quickly would require an awful lot of alignment and concession, I think a lot of leave voters won't actually mind about this ?

People are talking as if we are no longer European and no longer have the right to travel, work, live or study in Europe or marry a European. It’s hysterical nonsense

You really do need to look at what a 3rd country means to the EU and the UKs immigration policy now and moving forward post brexit.

People are talking as if we are no longer European and no longer have the right to travel, work, live or study in Europe

After the end of the transition period, that's exactly the case and we will no longer have those rights. We will be third country nationals and those opportunities will be much, much harder to get and realistically only available to the wealthy and highly educated.
No more retiring to sunny Spain either, not unless your pension is massive.

I know what it means thanks. It means you will have to fulfil certain criteria in future. I believe thats exactly as it should be, for both people coming into the UK to live and work and for people leaving it.

Frederick has written a piece in the papers.
It says the EU is not Europe.

YANBU OP.

I think if 16-17 year olds had been allowed to vote, the outcome would have been different. It's their future.

" It's their future."

I've lived my entire life enjoying the undeniable benefits the EU has bought to the UK. My kids won't, for reasons nobody can articulate beyond half-truths and waffle.

It's a sad day, one where we see the beginning of the end of the UK and the end of the UK as a global voice. Petty nationalism at it's worst.

Here here where shallwemoveto...

Remainers going on and on and on about how they

1. Don’t know anyone who voted leave. Echo chamber anyone??
2. We are all going to hell in a handcart if we vote leave (leave won and the economy and people in employment figures haven’t imploded 3.5 years later!)

We had a GE last month with a clear message from a leave party.

Labour were a disgrace and wouldn’t state what they wanted, Lib Dem’s were clear on what they stood for and lost their leader.

Btw - I think Labour are STILL wondering why they lost. You just have to listen to RLB giving 10/10 for JC and stating that the policies were very popular (she made up some of them herself apparently). If Labour vote her in they are finished for a generation.

Some of the remainers even stated if the people who DIDNT vote voted Remain the result would have been different. What a ridiculous example. The people who didn’t vote shouldn’t be counted. They couldn’t be bothered to vote and anyway - how on earth do you know they would have voted your way?