To not understand why friendships change so much after kids?

[AIBU25]

I'm prepared to get slaughtered on this but I'm going to put it out there.

I really don't understand why friendships change so much after someone/a couple has children. I understand they have new priorities and less free time but why not make time for your friends? I don't understand how they expect to maintain friendships with absolutely no effort from their side. Most friends would be happy to do kid friendly activities, why not invite people along? People seem to just forget that there was a life before children.

(And if I had readily available childcare, I would use it to go to the dentist who I haven't seen for two years.)

A lot of people don't have childcare and don't like using someone they don't know when the children are very little. It also depends on the baby's age doesn't it. All my local friends meet at in the evening at pubs and each other's houses. I can't go because my baby goes to sleep at 7.30pm and I am his only source of food - can hardly be the other side of town if he wakes hungry. We have no family nearby for childcare anyway and honestly if we did, we'd use it to go out together for the first time since baby was born.

I do actually agree with you about the texting when child is a few months, as long as you literally mean a text every one and again and don't expect an immediate reply.

Some babies can't really be left for a night out if the mum is breastfeeding. My youngest is 9m old. Very rarely I'll nip out for a drink at a local pub with a couple of mum friends while the dads stay at home, but it'll be about 8.30 that we meet up once we've all got our kids to bed, and we'll only be out til around 10 as the babies are then waking up for another feed or we're just exhausted anyway.

People’s priorities and the demands on their time change when they have kids. It would be neither here nor there to me whether someone could go out for a drink once a month or not, but with a friend worth keeping I’d be looking for ways to make sure we stayed in touch (even an unanswered text now and again), compromising where necessary e.g. meeting friend at a garden centre rather than a pub or simply going for longer periods than usual without meeting. It’s worth the effort in the long run, as kids are not tiny forever. If you think the friend is treating you with disdain (for whatever reason) that’s a bit different as a friendship issue.

Priorities change when you have a major lifestyle change such as kids/new partner/job/etc.

I found that the friends I lost touch with when I had kids were the ones that still wanted to socialise in pubs/nightclubs. I had no inclination to regularly go out and i couldn't afford it either. One friend in particular had no interest in going for lunch etc but just wanted the nights out to remain the same. She understood a few years later when she had her own children.

My children are older now, but I still have little interest in going to the pub on a regular basis, my own interests have changed over time. I think that's how friendship is - it dies naturally evolve over time, and if you no longer have mutual interests then it might far away.

Nope. I'm with OP. And yes I was very sleep deprived at first. Because Ds2 barely slept at night.

But MN is like an alternative universe. Over the many years, I have seen most parents be overly child centred. Loads of posts of 'I haven't been on a night out for years'. 'I don't trust a babysitter'. And now I'm quite cold to such nonsense, and think if you haven't been out for 5 years, more-fool you!

I've managed to maintain most friendships in the last 20 years and meet up with all my friends, through pure determination. I also text a lot and phone a lot. This only takes mental effort, not much else.

No ones suggesting you go on a 3 day Benidorm bender, after your newborn is a week old. But if you can't leave a 2 year old. Who these days gets 15 hours of nursery, so should have less attachment issues ( let's be honest, it's mostly not the kids who have attachment issues! It's the mums) then as the child gets older and older, there are less excuses.

If you have a 10 year old and can't plan an annual night away, then that's different to newborn issues! (Bread knife in fridge!)

Oblomov20
That relies on you being a big texter/messenger. People who say "it's just a text" tend to be people who message and texts lots anyway.

People who aren't big on texting (or are prone to reading a message when it comes through,but not replying when mid activity/task before forgetting) would be more rubbish at texting, but wouldn't think less of their friends for not texting lots in the first place.

I agree with you on the slaves to the child, with claims they couldn't have an afternoon away from the pre teens, couldn't possibly leave DP / DH with his own children for a morning.

For me, it's not the exhaustion or the lack of time. It's the fact that I really really can't stand to hear any more unasked for advice.

I don't know why but for some reason every woman without children that I know has an opinion on how I should feed my baby, how many siblings my baby should have, how my baby should sleep and I just can't deal with it. I barely bring up the topic of babies, if anything I want to talk about literally anything else but every time I meet a friend/ex colleague without children, I'll get advice on what worked for their friend/their sister/their aunt.

eg Last time I saw an ex colleague, she asked if I was breast or formula feeding. I really didn't want to get into it, so I just said we were doing both and tried to change the subject but instead I got a whole spiel about pumping and cluster feeding and bottles. Does she think I don't know? Does she think I haven't read up on this stuff and spoken to my midwife and so on?

It does my head in because she doesn't even have any experience so why is she telling me??

You say most friends would be happy to do kid friendly activities but you are wrong. Most people prefer relaxing and fun ways to spend their time and having a child there changes the dynamic. You also can't confide certain things with children there. You can drink alcohol etc. When you have a newborn it's all-consuming for at least the first year. You're trying to keep your kid alive. Most people don't have family support now. Their parents live away from them. Their siblings are busy with their own jobs and lives. New parents have to do it by themselves. It's not surprising that friendships go down the drain. Even if they are committed to maintaining the friendship it's just too difficult, there's not enough time, etc.

As a child free person I have not much interest in kid friendly activities. If you can't find a babysitter then we're probably not gonna hang out for a while. I do text and call my friends who are parents though. Usually they can squeeze some time to talk over the phone. But if it involves travelling or getting a babysitter then they aren't gonna come.

Most friends would be happy to do kid friendly activities

Many childfree people have no idea what constitutes a kid-friendly activity. Here's a clue: it's not an activity where the adults talk amongst themselves and the kids quietly entertain themselves in the corner for a couple hours. My 10-week old can occupy himself for approximately 15 minutes at a time, once every hour or two. The rest of the time he needs someone to be feeding/ changing/ interacting with him/ rocking him. That's not easy to accommodate at any kind of social event, no matter how low-key it is.

@aroundtheworldyet.

Husbands shag their assistants because they're selfish arseholes. No other reason. Dont ever justify cheating and lying on a baby. Eurgh.

At the ripe old age of 55, I remember when our friends started having kids about 20 years ago ( mostly late starters) . Mr Tink and I weren’t able to have kids. I can see why it changes friendships. I imagine it changes parents’ relationships with everyone in their lives. All of a sudden, there is this very dependent, very loud, very expensive bundle that demands to be the centre of the Universe in their lives. The baby has to be the centre of the universe. Babies have so many needs that they require incredible devotion and commitment. Not too much room for anyone else. There is a reason that small critters are made cute- otherwise you would kill them😀. It did hurt to feel put on the back burner a bit, but I could also see why.

Sorry to say this but the expectations to text back in good time or organise childcare to then go out are just more demands on me when all I want to do is sleep/shower/not deal with anyone.. i find socializing really exhausting, i'm an introvert. I love my friends and will make the effort regularly but not as often as they'd like.

@JonnyPocketRocket a baby that small doesn’t need constant interaction... and rocking him doesn’t take 100% of your focus, does it? You can still talk at the same time

Do you think people with toddlers and a newborn interact one hour and forty five minutes out of every two hours with the newborn? No, they don’t

YANBU, it happens. Most people learn to accommodate and adjust, both sides. We do this quite well but other friends less so.

Some of them shut down entirely to focus on their first borns needs and only their needs. I’ll see them when/if they decide to have a second child and realise.

I'm on the fence with this one. DS is 18 months and it feels to me like I make a big effort to keep up with friendships, but I'm not sure that my friends (almost all don't have children yet) would agree. The thing is that I don't only have one friend, so if I do something social every couple of weeks - which feels like quite a lot, especially if it means sacrificing weekend time with DS (I work full time) - it still means months go by since I saw any one friend. I try and make sure I text etc but again it's easy to remember to text one person, but when it's a few it's easy to think 'god, when did I last speak to x?' and realise it's been ages.

I feel like I have about 1/10th of the time to spend on friendships I had before DS, and that means either just ditching swathes of friends or pissing everyone off by making them all feel that I'm only making a 10% effort.

I think it's likely that people cocoon in order to get through the hard part. Also I don't even have kids and rarely text anyone other than my best mate - it's just empty chat and I can't be arsed

It depends on what you consider "reasonable" or "regular" effort. I'm in better touch with friends who live further away, but the expectation to meet up had already diminished (to say 3 or 4 times a year) and texts/phone calls were more common. I think the friendships with those who live locally, who I used to see weekly, have definitely suffered because 3 or 4 times a year is now a lot of effort when you have a baby, but for the childfree person, I fully understand that there will be a big hole in their life where the friendship once was.

I do feel horrible for becoming such a bad friend, I just don't know how to remedy it. As @PapayaCoconut says, how do you make more time?

@LisaSimpsonsbff

I feel like I have about 1/10th of the time to spend on friendships I had before DS, and that means either just ditching swathes of friends or pissing everyone off by making them all feel that I'm only making a 10% effort.

Yes, this too 👆

If they make no effort at all you need new friends, what you do not need to do is tar everyone with the same brush. I don't know anyone like this. Shame you have shit mates but most of us do our best to see friends and have a family as best we can. Ps you sound bitter too

Could depend if you are an extrovert, introvert? I'm an omnivert. Both.

I love being home alone. I'm also a total party animal and crave very very deep friendships. Which I have. This makes me happy.

I'm also a fan of almost Benign neglect. I pottered around doing hoovering and washing. I took plenty of baths, on my own uninterrupted. Fuck that for looking after/pandering ds's every 15 minutes as a pp suggested. Ds's sat watching endless hours of Thomas the tank and fireman Sam.

Then we'd go to rye park.

Then I'd jump under the duvet with them, cuddle and watch Balamory before I'd prepare a literally 5 minute shove it all in the slow cooker sausage casserole!

Then back under the duvet till Dh arrived home from work.

Screw this, taking them to the London eye or London aquarium every other day. Screw not having any friends, or no time for a phone call to my mum/ best friend.

I just don't prescribe to this over parenting that seems all the rage these days.

@Oblomov20 And that works for you. Personally I don't want my child to watch endless hours of TV. That was my childhood and it sucked for me.

I don't think I over parent, but I have a lot of help so that is a massive advantage I know other women don't always have.

You just sound a bit smug, like you have it all figured out and anyone who does differently is some kind of uptight helicopter parent.

I don’t have childcare options (live abroad, away from family in a country where its either a full time nanny or nothing) , my baby is a full time job atm and what free time I have i want to actually br able to speak to my DH (usually to do life admin unfortunately) or have a shower. I’m too tired tbh.

When I didn’t have a kid you wouldn’t have caught me dead at any child centric activities.