To not understand why friendships change so much after kids?

[AIBU25]

I'm prepared to get slaughtered on this but I'm going to put it out there.

I really don't understand why friendships change so much after someone/a couple has children. I understand they have new priorities and less free time but why not make time for your friends? I don't understand how they expect to maintain friendships with absolutely no effort from their side. Most friends would be happy to do kid friendly activities, why not invite people along? People seem to just forget that there was a life before children.

I do get what the OP is saying though.

I have children but I dont assume my friends will be the ones to make all the effort. Its as much up to me as it is them. Yes I couldnt see much of them when the kids were little but that was ok as I kept in touch. I have other friends who just stopped calling and then got stroppy when they got left out of things as the rest of us got pissed off with being the only ones to make any effort.

@NightsOfCabiria not anyone’s fault but it was just a two hour shouting/grappling session that i was there to witness to be honest oh I’ve been there as the one grappling!! And it’s maybe unfair but somehow it seems less upsetting/embarrassing when the person you are catching up with is doing the same? When you are doing that while trying to be sparkly and entertaining with a friend with no kids it’s... a lot. Or at least it is for me. At least when the other mum is also in the same boat you can share an eye roll and a whispered FML......!

Most friends would be happy to do kid friendly activities

As a childfree person, I'm happy to do 'kid friendly activities' occasionally, but no more than that. I think parents forget the constant noise, mess and chaos that comes with having children. It might just be part of the background noise for them, but it isn't for the childfree. It's no fun meeting up to have a natter with a friend only to find her being unable to complete a sentence without having to wipe a nose or pull some little hand away from the electricity outlet.

Obviously I accept that whne you have children they are and must be their parents' absolute first priority. However, they are not my priority because that is not the life I have chosen. That's why I find it's just vey hard to maintain friendships when one person has young kids and the other is childfree. That's not to say that you no longer care for one another, just that your priorities and lifestyle are so different that the practicalities of spending time together are difficult, if not often impossible.

@PyongyangKipperbang yes!! Finally a post I can understand! I don't get the whole attitude of "I'm going to make absolutely no effort with my friends because I've had a baby but still expect them to make 100‰ effort“

Also with my side - sometimes the effort of getting ready to go out into public is too much for me, I’m exhausted, crabby and look like I’ve not slept in months (because I haven’t had a good nights sleep since my twins were born - part insomnia which I’ve had for a lot of my life, part because I’m knackered after looking after two sleep dodging toddlers). Most of the people I knew didn’t want to come to visit me with the twins, they wanted me without them, no understanding of my situation, lack of money, sanity and sleep, any time I had taken up by Grandparents visiting. You asked “does it take that much effort?” - well for some people, yes it bloody does at the end of a busy week.

Oh and also...I still am crap at texting back because my DC go wild if they see my phone and demand to play with it. Plus I hate them seeing me on it too much, so it spends a lot of time on a high shelf.

Ive been on both sides of this. I used to not appreciate why babies made friends disappear, and I used to get quite annoyed with them. I guess I used to take it personally.

Fast forward 5 years, im now pregnant with my 1st. In the 3rd trimester and im EXHAUSTED. I dont sleep particularly well at night and have to go to work the next day. The thought of going to the pub for a catch up in the evening feels like a huge hurdle. I imagine it'll be like this and worse when the baby comes along.

I understand that friends who havent had kids may not understand and may fade away, but it does take a bit of understanding from you too. This thread has made me realise that I was quite self centred before, and I think it takes perspective to really understand.

If I were you, i'd just send a message casually asking how life with baby is blah blah blah. Dont expect a reply straight away. Dont pressure her into meeting up. TBH she probably doesnt want too.

As PP have said, I get the impression its the low maint friendships or the people that are willing to give A LOT (maybe come over to my house and catch up whilst im changing a babies nappy or putting a wash on) that are going to survive for me.

I am the first of my group of friends to have a DC. Alongside the upheaval, sleep deprivation etc that PPs have mentioned, I honestly found that I didnt have anything to say to most of my old friends in the early days. I felt closer to my NCT group I'd known for 3 months than school friends I'd known for 20 years. The inconvenient truth is when you're wondering if it's normal to have x, y, z symptom 3 months after birth, people without children are no use. One of my very dear friends came out with "you'll never understand the sleep deprivation" associated with her first term in teaching. I had a 4 month old still feeding every 1-2 hours through the night.

My DS is now 11 months old and I'm starting to vaguely feel a little bit more like myself again. I have managed a couple of evenings out with old friends this month. Fortunately, my friends have been more understanding and patient (to my face at least) than your posts. It's been a great test of which friends have got your back through a tough time

There are so many demands on your time when you have small children. I completely underestimated it.

I didn't realise that babies might not take a bottle or a dummy and instead feed on you constantly for months on end. I didn't realise that I might spend all evening sitting in a dark room trying to feed a baby to sleep. I didn't realise that I could go weeks without feeling like I'd had an actual conversation with my husband despite living in the same house, due to the above.

And then I went back to work and expected to feel guilty about leaving my baby, but instead felt guilty about leaving work on the dot to do pick up, and not being able to do extra at evenings and weekends.

There is a big list of priorities in life, and time with my kids, time with my husband, and time for myself are inevitably going to come before time with friends.

There are friendships I have neglected and feel bad about. But I do think it is a bit inevitable.

The thing that is not really understood

is that children have no 'off' button

Its not that they are demanding or spoiled

they truly have to be the centre of your universe in order to survive.

Non parents find this quite baffling.

It is true that people drop off the radar once they have a baby, but as PPs have said, it is just the sheer exhaustion that parenthood brings. I had a baby a couple of years ago and desperately miss my pre-baby friendships.

I don't think it's true that "Most friends would be happy to do kid friendly activities". Most of my friends want to meet up for dinner/drinks in the evening but I can't easily get childcare (single mum) or if they want to meet at the weekend with my DC in tow, they always suggest "somewhere nice" because it's been ages. I've had a few outings to "somewhere nice", but don't enjoy it because DC is 2 and doesn't want to sit still for a couple of hours while grownups catch up. Every sentence is interrupted or DC will want to run around the room or throw something unless he is getting my full attention, so it's stressful, can't relax, can't catch up properly and worry that I'm ruining the dining experience for the other customers. Easier to cancel.

My friends continue to go without me and you stop getting invited after a while. My DSis asked "why don't you invite x over one night for a film/pizza, but by the time bedtime is done, the evening is spent tidying up and I just want to get my pjs on and go to bed. Also, when I have had people over for an evening, my DC has got up 400 times needing a poo/a wee/a drink/a cuddle/a new nappy/etc that I've not caught up with my friend anyway and then have a grouchy sleep deprived toddler to deal with the next day. Not worth it.

I have lots of mummy friends that I've met since having DC, that I meet up with in the mornings for kiddy things, but I really do miss the friendships I had with my older friends and it makes me so sad to think about because I don't think I will ever be able to get them back.

Yep, l see why you feel like this. My longest friend is like this. From the second she got pregnant she opted out and made little effort. But on the flip side expected me to dance to her tune, morning, noon and night. Over 5 years in l am bored of it and don't 'perform'. She is now unhappy with this but hasn't apologised or said she will make more effort so that's probably it.

Free tips: a child free friend with fertility problem won't want to get up stupidly early at the weekend for a family day out. She will also find it tactless you saying how "easy" she has it when fertility drugs don't agree with her and she struggles to get out of bed. As you report how you have to get up at 5am with your children

People seem to just forget that there was a life before children.

People seem to just forget life doesn’t revolve around them.

I discovered my friends were seemingly unable to do anything without getting drunk. I’m not a drinker but hadn’t noticed previously that anything we did together heavily featured alcohol. And that when sober they were actually quite dull.

My life is happier without them.

Did you really just register with MN to start a post slagging off people with children?

Op as a childless person, you might not be the right type of friend anymore.

A good friend (couple, dh was best man at their wedding) pretty much ditched us when they had kids. We always suggested child friendly things but they rarely accepted. They however still socialised but with their new friends with babies.

Then I got pregnant, and all of a sudden we're back in....

That's not how I work though, had a girls night out with all of my childless friends last weekend and it was great.

You cant afford to be selfish when you have children

People with children are not one bit less selfish than people without. It's just that their sense of self expands to include their own offspring.

A lot of friendships are based on shared lifestyle, children change lifestyles even between friends that start families around the same time.

This is true. A couple of my friendships did not survive when they had kids and became permanent SAHMs and I did neither. There was just no common ground.

I only have one real friend, I have known her since our early teens and having DC has not remotely changed our friendship. We don't see each other for ages but when we met up we pick up exactly where we left off. I don't really understand this whole thing about making an effort to keep the friendship going, not when it comes to really close friends anyway. We both have busy lives and only meet up occasionally but if one of us needs something we would only have to call and the other would be there in a flash.

@StealthMama you don't know that I don't have children so don't assume this.

@daftodil oh God yes the 'somewhere nice' thing! I absolutely get that! My DS is 2 and at an absolutely mortifying stage when it comes to going out for meals. I just can't do it! It also reminds me of taking 8 month DD out to 'somewhere nice' with two child free friends, and she dropped her food right into my friend's designer bag...needless to say, these are friends I'm not really in contact with anymore...

YABU

I have 3 small children, the youngest is nearly 4 and I only feel now like I might be able to find me again.

DH and I both work full time, so I drop at nursery, then at school breakfast club, then drive fast (in between traffic) to hope you get to work on time, walk very fast for 15 mins from car park to work, do my job til 5pm, run back to car park, drive fast home, hope there are no delays, rush to after school club, drive round to nursery, drive home, feed, homework, sort animals, wash children, bed, stories, out wash on, full dishwasher, empty it, make lunches for next day, go to bed exhausted
Youngest still wakes over night unfortunately and they are up again at 6am

There is no time for exercise, DH works long shifts and often weekends. I breastfed each until they were 12 months old and none would take a bottle so that limited me before going back to work too.

Thankfully my friends waited for me.

I'm on the other side of this too. When our first arrived, it's like a switch was flicked for a couple of my close friends without kids, and they lost all interest in meeting up (with or without my kids!)
I was sad to start with - they were very close friends and local -and I kept making an effort. They'd been really excited about our baby coming and been fairly involved in the lead up. But then they were always too busy and never initiated. Years have gone by and we've seen each other a handful of times. They've barely met DC! They really don't seem to care. I genuinely don't know what happened.

Now I don't bother. Having kids has made me re evaluate what and who is important to prioritise with my precious limited time. And they don't make the cut. I'd bet if you asked them they'd say the change was due to me having kids. Maybe it was in a way - as I've realised that I was the one who initiated most meet ups or texts before and when I had less time, I dropped back a bit. Over time I left it a bit longer between contact to see what they would do. Nothing.

It's a change of lifestyle and priorities.

Other big changes also tend to come with change of friendships simply because life is different:

Going to uni/starting a job.
Having Children
Retiring

All things where lifestyle changes and those left behind don't understand that what used to be fun is no longer a priority.

If you want to keep your friends when they have children you need to be prepared to change with them, not expect them not to change.

True the point about friendships between parents not lasting. I made friends with a group of first time mums and because I continually had to say no to every evening occasion that was arranged, I gradually found myself edged out.

@StealthMama you don't know that I don't have children so don't assume this

You're being awfully coy OP. Do you or do you not have kids? It's kind of relevant to the discussion you chose to start.

I'm a single working mother. I literally have 3 friends left from my pre-kid days. 2 have kids (younger than my DD) and one is childfree.

We get out about every other month or so for drinks with the odd coffee/lunch (with kids in tow) thrown in between.
I make a genuine effort with these friends because they understand. As a PP said, the friends I am not in contact with are the ones who expected me to be the old me, out every weekend, girly holidays abroad twice a year etc and I just can't keep up with that. If that is seen as a lack of effort then there isn't much I can do about that, I have enough plates in the air.