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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not feel sorry for colleague ripped off at strip club?

551 replies

Bibbiditybobbidy · 26/01/2020 23:00

30 year old colleague went to a well known strip club on a stag do, and woke up the next day with £7k missing from bank acct.
He was so drunk it appears he managed to spend all that without knowing. When he complained they sent him evidence of himself ( CCTV) at the bar authorising each transaction, times receipts etc
He parents have had to lend him ££ as he’s at his over draft limit and he’s paying them back.
He’s weeping and wailing about it but I just think he’s been an arse and should learn as lesson AIBU? He’s getting lots of sympathy about the ‘injustice’ of it in the office... but he's exactly the kind of guy to show off in front of his mates playing the big man, while he’s actually a bit of a beta male...I have NO sympathy for him, the little creep!

OP posts:
HandsOffMyLangCleg · 29/01/2020 19:22

*Hooves, this has been explained over and over and over again. Sex without consent is one person deliberately hurting another person’s body. Spending too much money when drunk in a strip club or on amazon or in a car dealership is you hurting yourself. Please, please can you stop with this now. It’s been explained so many times.

And from another poster: they are certainly not exploited in any way Genuinely laughed at how ridiculous this statement is.*

Thanks Pumper for expressing this so articulately and concisely.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 29/01/2020 19:28

Hooves it was the wording in the paragraph I pasted which I think put this scenario alongside rape. I don't accept a crime was committed with this guy so I don't think he is as deserving of the same degree of investigation and I don't think it should be taken any more seriously. Your posts sound like you think he absolutely should be.

Hurting himself, as others have said, better describes what happened.

Sagradafamiliar · 29/01/2020 19:37

I've really appreciated cornelius' posts as well.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 19:44

Sex without consent is one person deliberately hurting another person’s body.

I'm not talking about sex without consent though. I am talking about a drunk person saying that they want sex, so giving consent, but decent people saying that there is a chance that sober, they wouldn't have consented and so refusing to go there. The drunk person could be make it female. The so we person could be male or female. The drunk person could be male agreeing to sex with a sober female - that wouldn't be rape. She shouldn't agree to it.

I am not talking about a person comatose at a party being raped. I am talking about drunk people agreeing to have sex when that shouldn't be accepted as them consenting.

june2007 · 29/01/2020 19:49

YAABU as if he was that drunk they should not have been serving him and def taking advantage of the customers.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 29/01/2020 19:55

I don’t know. I didn’t say I had the answers.

PanicAndRun · 29/01/2020 19:56

How many women or men that say they wanted sex and had sex when drunk are actually told "nah mate,you didn't "?

Because that's not something I've encountered.

Lack of consent is normally suggested when the person(generally a woman) has no recollection, is unsure if sexual contact even happened, tend to be sore,bruised or even bleeding the next day etc. The person is themselves confused and trying to make sense of things. Or when they say they were too drunk/weak/sleepy to say no,fight back or resist so just let it happen. Lack of no does not equal consent. Consent is enthusiastic and ongoing.

There's a difference between wild drunk monkey sex and waking up without your underwear, with bites or bruises and no recollection of what or how it happened .

But like I said previously you do seem to struggle with the idea of consent and what it is or isn't.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 20:03

How many women or men that say they wanted sex and had sex when drunk are actually told "nah mate,you didn't "?

Nah mate you didn't what?

If you have sex with a drunk person, as in drunk not unconscious or incoherent, and they are saying they want sex how can you be sure that they mean it? You wait, surely, until they are sober, man or woman?

Sagradafamiliar · 29/01/2020 20:05

Hear, please look closely at legislation around rape and what informed consent is, then you would know what you're talking about and realise why consent when it comes to sex, has no place in a conversation about a man blowing his money in a strip joint. Or your kids ordering stuff off Amazon.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 20:16

Sagradafamiliar

I don't need to look at legislation around rape because I'm not talking about rape.

Do you or would you sleep with a drunk person even if they said they wanted to sleep with you?

Pumperthepumper · 29/01/2020 20:21

Hooves instead of more questions and made-up scenarios, why don’t you just come out and explain why someone consenting to drunk sex is related to this man’s situation?

A woman has consented to drunk sex.
This man has spent £7k in a strip club.

Explain how these are related please.

Pumperthepumper · 29/01/2020 20:21

AwwLook I think Panic’s reply is really good. The line is drawn when a crime is committed.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 20:30

The similarity is in how decent people view a drunk person's ability to make decisions.

A drunk person says that they want to have sex - a decent person declines and waits until drunk person sobers up to see if they really meant it. They don't think (or at least decent people don't think) great, they said they want to, so who am I to not do as they say.

Drunk man wants to spend a lot of money in a club - a law abiding business should decline because drunk man may well not be in possession of his full faculties.

If you walked down the road and a drunk man was handing out £50 notes would you take one? After all, no one's forcing him to do it.

This man was wrong for getting absolutely wasted but the club were wrong to take advantage of that fact.

Pumperthepumper · 29/01/2020 20:38

And the difference is: two people having sex have a responsibility to each other, mutual benefits, enthusiastic participation from both parties, an equally good time, if you like.

A man spending too much money in a business is owed nothing by that business, aside from providing the goods he paid for. They have no responsibility whatsoever for his wellbeing, in fact they are there to take as much money as possible from him, a fact he knew when he walked into that business. He enthusiastically took part in that business to give himself a good time. They provided that time for him, for £7k.

CorneliusBeefington · 29/01/2020 20:44

Thanks Sagradafamiliar I appreciate that.

I meant to say this earlier too, but, at the door in most clubs (obviously I can't speak for all, but every club I've ever worked in) before the customers enter the club they will get a speech, the list of rules which will go something along the lines of

"Right lads, welcome to 'strip club name', we are a gentleman's club so please behave as one. Do not touch the girls, do not proposition the girls, do not behave in a way which will make the girls uncomfortable or be rude to the girls or you will be removed. Dances start at £20, drinks start at a fiver, remember to tip your waitress, keep your wits about you and have fun!"

If it's a table service club there will also be something about "please stay in your seats, your waitress will be over shortly to take your drinks order, she will serve you at your table" etc

It's not a case of just wandering in, it's (again) usually a license requirement that the club rules and a drinks price menu are displayed outside before you go into the club floor.

PanicAndRun · 29/01/2020 20:50

I f you walked down the road and a drunk man was handing out £50 notes would you take one? After all, no one's forcing him to do it.

But if he waived a can driver down and said I'll give you £50 if you take me to x address and the driver does it despite the fare only being £15-£20 would that be a crime? Or asked him to take him for a drive for £50 pounds worth?

Would that be a crime? Would it be a scam?

Because he didn't give the money away for free. He paid for services...alcohol and lap dances.

Also it's only his word that he was absolutely wasted. His complaint to the club /police and asking for sympathy would have been even more in doubt if he said he was anything but.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 20:53

two people having sex have a responsibility to each other, mutual benefits, enthusiastic participation from both parties, an equally good time, if you like.

So would you, as a sober person, have sex with a drunk person? How can you know that the drunk person is an enthusiastic partner? You can't.

A business of course has responsibilities towards its customers - not least in this case, to fulfill licensing laws by not selling alcohol to people who are drunk. How can you say someone who's spent £7000 wasn't drunk?

I can't just rock up to the doors of a casino tonight and go in and gamble. I can't even go into.my bank and withdraw a substantial amount of money without being asked questions. Why not? It's my money.

PanicAndRun · 29/01/2020 20:53

How the hell do clubs manage to serve customers if you can't serve drunk people?

No one is going to be stone cold sober at 2 am ordering another shot of sambuca.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 20:55

I also can't go into the supermarket and buy 3 packets of paracetamol. Why not? It's a business whose only purpose is to make money from me. But somehow it's ok for them to refuse to sell me 3 packs of paracetamol in order to stop someone from harming themselves but not ok to stop someone from ruining themselves financially?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 29/01/2020 20:56

How the hell do clubs manage to serve customers if you can't serve drunk people

Well, that's the law

Pumperthepumper · 29/01/2020 20:57

So would you, as a sober person, have sex with a drunk person? How can you know that the drunk person is an enthusiastic partner? You can't.

Again, how is this question relevant? It is not illegal to have sex when drunk. It’s not illegal to have sex with a drunk person. It is not illegal to spend £7k on goods and services. It is illegal for someone to steal £7k from your bank account without you knowing. It IS illegal to have sex with someone without their consent.

PanicAndRun · 29/01/2020 21:05

Why can you buy scratch cards or lottery tickets?
Why do casinos exist?
Betting sites and shops?
Online casinos,poker,games etc?

Why are there paid cam girls websites?

They're responsible for more financial ruin than strip clubs and it's become easier and easier to access these places. You don't even have to leave the house to lose 7k, sober or not.

GnomeDePlume · 29/01/2020 21:32

I dont think there is a legal definition of 'drunk'.

Once someone has had a single drink they could be argued to be under the influence of alcohol and therefore no longer capable of making decisions. So once a customer has started sipping on a sherry they should be told to leave a restaurant as they are no longer capable of deciding whether they want chicken or steak.

The reality is that whether a person is drunk is a judgement call. What is the test? This person was seemingly capable of articulating drinks orders and paying for them. He was not apparently lying on the table with a funnel in his mouth being force fed premium vodka by bar staff.

He went into a club where he will have known that drinks are expensive. He will have known that the person taking her clothes off gets paid. That it was more than he could afford is down to him. The club will have seen plenty of people who could have easily afforded what he spent. Are they under an obligation to check his financial position befor accepting his order?

Sagradafamiliar · 29/01/2020 21:54

Oh for goodness sake, Hearhooves. You keep saying you aren't talking about rape, yet relentlessly speak about: sex and consent or lack thereof. I'm telling you, if you take a quick look into the law on this matter, then you can equip yourself with the facts and stop asking hypothetical questions about made up scenarios.

Sagradafamiliar · 29/01/2020 22:00

Oh, I see we've moved onto the legalities of not being able to purchase 3 packs of paracetamol now. Arghh god! What a load of whataboutery!