AIBU to think these Welsh language requirements are ridiculous (and bordering on discrimination?)

[DimDimDiolch]

Context: I run a micro business in urban South Wales, where I rarely hear Welsh spoken, and many Welsh born-and-bred people don't speak a word of Welsh. I lived my whole life in England (no Welsh lessons at school - or anywhere else!) until about 18 months ago. I've picked up the odd bit of Welsh here and there (diolch, dim, croeso, nos da, bara, araf - that sort of thing) but I'm far from fluent. My business isn't yet big enough to employ anyone else.

My business is the sort of business where you attend events, pay for a pitch and sell products to the general public.

I've now been denied pitches at a couple of events purely on the grounds that I don't speak Welsh, even though literally everyone locally speaks English (except those who only speak Polish or Urdu...). AIBU to think it's a matter of anti-English sentiment, bordering on discrimination, that I'm experiencing? It all feels a bit 'jobs for the boys' to me, when my Welsh speaking ability has nothing to do with the products I sell.

Welsh has legal recognition. Surely this trumps everything.

Rubbish, unless you are going into the a job where you will need it then it is usually not a requirement. Obviously health and social care, teaching, local government administration and some customer facing roles need it.

And often even where it is a requirement for Welsh it won’t be for fluency, just courtesy level - pronouncing names correctly, being able to do a bilingual telephone greeting, say good morning/good afternoon, can I help you, sorry I don’t speak Welsh. Not a huge ask really.

I’m English living in Wales. I genuinely can’t believe you’ve moved to a country and are now complaining about speaking their own language!!! You are exactly why English people in Wales get a bad rep.

For the fourth time of asking. Show us the proof Op.

Witsendagain, that comparison does not hold

More than 19% of Spanish speak Spanish!

More than 19% of Spanish speak Spanish!

French is an official language of Canada. The same proportion of Canadians speak it.

If Welsh teachers in the 19th century forced school children in Wales to speak English then that was their own fault. I very much doubt they were ordered to do it by the government in London

This is wrong. You're in the internet with access to Wikipedia as a bare minimum. Do your research.

@Flaxmeadow a report by English civil servants encouraged the use of the Welsh Not.

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead no, it doesn't work like that. The native language of the USA is certainly not English. The native language of England isn't even English.

Curious as to what events? Except for the Eisteddfod I can't think of any where it's essential for a non-public services body.

Also, loads of free Welsh lessons in Cardiff. I am Welsh and Don"t really speak Welsh. There's a few jobs where speaking Welsh gives you the edge, bit not many.

@Waffles80: I totally agree with you.

When I was young, there was a real danger that the Welsh language would die out, as Kernewek virtually has (although there is something of a revival movement going on).

When a language goes, it's culture isn't far behind. It's one of the reasons the Bretons are so keen to preserve their language (and the Basques even more so).

I think the achievements of the Cymraeg language movement have been phenomenal. I'd hate to see the language go the way of Kernewek, and would make every effort to learn it if I moved to Wales.

"Replace 'Wales' with 'Spain', 'Welsh' with 'Spanish', if you still think that not speaking the local language as a public facing entrepreneur is reasonable then yanbu..."

It's really complicated, and it depends where you are in the country. It might be more appropriate to say, are you U to only use Spanish (or in this context, it would be more appropriate to call it Castellano / Castilian) if you are a Basque person whose family has lived in the Basque country for generations as a Castellano speaking family.

And even then I'd be wary of making the comparison, as I'm not closely acquainted with the politics of the Basque language.

If it helps, for English people who have never lived in Wales, it's highly geographically variable (google the Landsker Line for one example - people below it have been culturally English speaking for centuries). It's also at least where I am strongly class related - my friends who are the children / grandchildren of 70s middle class hippy incomers are more likely to be Welsh speaking than working class friends who come from families who've lived here for 6 or 7 generations at least. (Farming families from the right place are the most likely to be Welsh speaking - but go 30 miles down the road and they probably won't be.)

Basically, if you don't live here, tread warily! And I say that as someone who loves the language and has spent many hours in classes. (And who speaks reasonably fluent Spanish & picked it up within a very few months after moving there on the back of a C level GCSE.)

(Having said all that, I call bollocks on 99% of claims of 'official discrimination' against monolingual English speakers.)

I have a few South Walian friends who only know Welsh swear words

I would so love to know Welsh swear words! My aim is to be multi-lingual in profanity.

If Welsh teachers in the 19th century forced school children in Wales to speak English then that was their own fault. I very much doubt they were ordered to do it by the government in London

Then you are sadly mistaken and need to educate yourself.

@Flaxmeadow

No one forced them?
Please educate yourself. .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treachery_of_the_Blue_Books

also Google the Welsh Not and Capel Celyn.
Welsh children have been beaten in schools for speaking Welsh, whole communities have been forced from their homes due to the government in London in the TWENTIETH Century (not even the 19th!!!).

The Welsh culture is fighting to survive and doing well.
I live in just about the Welshest area in Welsh Wales. The English are welcome, to holiday here, and to move here, with the right attitude. Learn some Welsh, be aware of the history and just be a bit respectful FGS.

It's become ridiculous now if you have to speak welsh to put up a stall and sell to the public. Welsh speakers can speak english so where is the problem? As a nation we should be gracious and welcome non welsh speakers. We will become a laughing stock soon. As a Welsh person , I cant speak the language so does that make me a lesser person?

Thank you for explaining the truth of how the Welsh people were treated so cruelly by the English Government @Bookwitch.

You need Welsh for most (all?) public sector jobs in Wales or a willingness to learn.

But I'm not sure why you'd need Welsh to sell crafts/Neal's Yard remedies/other stuff at a fayre unless it is a Welsh speaking event. I'd very much doubt that most retail staff in eg Cardiff speak Welsh to any useful degree even if they did GCSE other than the ones working in the Welsh language shop (if it's still there, I can picture where it was, but not sure if it's still there now).

I think OP foolishly failed to realise that eisteddfod etc have different (perfectly acceptable) rules.

People keep talking about how you can't move to another country and not expect to learn the local language.
But in Wales a lot of local people who are born and bred Welsh do not speak Welsh and that affects their employment. As I said my boss who works in England is in this position. He is very bitter that he could not get the same job in Wales as he does not speak Welsh. He is from a working-class background and says there is a big class issue here.

I'm cringing so much at this OP. This is why the English have a bad name - trampling over other cultures, having this entitlement that English is a requirement wherever they go. Same mentality as those people who go abroad and complain there wasn't enough English food, or that too many people in Spain were speaking Spanish.

The UK is made up of four separate countries with distinct cultural identities. E&W form one legal jurisdiction for many things but Wales is still a distinct country with its own rules and requirements. All three of the other countries have been so royally shat on by England over the centuries that they have to make extra effort to retain their distinctiveness, and I'm glad they do.

If you want to trade/work in a country then it's fair enough that you are expected to learn their language. My cousin moved to Switzerland and she wasn't even allowed to work until she had acquired a certain level of German. Was that discrimination? No? Why not? Exactly.

When I go abroad I make an effort to learn at least something of the language.

I'm English by the way.

As I said my boss who works in England is in this position. He is very bitter that he could not get the same job in Wales as he does not speak Welsh.

What is his job?

He is an academic.