AIBU to think these Welsh language requirements are ridiculous (and bordering on discrimination?)

[DimDimDiolch]

Context: I run a micro business in urban South Wales, where I rarely hear Welsh spoken, and many Welsh born-and-bred people don't speak a word of Welsh. I lived my whole life in England (no Welsh lessons at school - or anywhere else!) until about 18 months ago. I've picked up the odd bit of Welsh here and there (diolch, dim, croeso, nos da, bara, araf - that sort of thing) but I'm far from fluent. My business isn't yet big enough to employ anyone else.

My business is the sort of business where you attend events, pay for a pitch and sell products to the general public.

I've now been denied pitches at a couple of events purely on the grounds that I don't speak Welsh, even though literally everyone locally speaks English (except those who only speak Polish or Urdu...). AIBU to think it's a matter of anti-English sentiment, bordering on discrimination, that I'm experiencing? It all feels a bit 'jobs for the boys' to me, when my Welsh speaking ability has nothing to do with the products I sell.

I moved to the most welsh speaking village in the of north wales three months ago from not so far from the borders in England. Its been super hard, but I think most of that has been my perception that I can't speak Welsh so I kept really quiet for a bit! However, now I have settled a bit, done bits of duolingo and starting up on a dysgu cymraeg course soon, I've realised (like a wally) that my area of Wales is really friendly and it's a bonus to be able to try to speak Welsh but not the end of the world. The willingness to try is respected, I wouldn't move to France and expect everyone to speak English! It's a beautiful language. I've visited here since I was in nappies, four decades later, it's only living here that I really appreciate the culture. I'm still job hunting after my move, but I've found very new roles that are specifically welsh speaking. The main issue I HAVE, not employers, for instance, as a carer eg, can I deliver my Job role as best as I can if a service user is not bilingual? But that is a question that could be asked nationwide as there are lots of people doing the same job role with many different first languages.

Well, you want to live in a country where you are required to be bilingual, you have to go with it.
Would you expect to only run your business in English if you lived let’s. say in.Spain? If it’s a requirement, take language courses or go back to England.

I would move to France and expect to speak English if only one in five French people spoke French and everyone spoke English. It is not a relevant comparison.

It is more equivalent to saying I will move to Australia and expect to speak English, rather than Maori.

But @karencantobe, the point is literally no one is saying anyone HAS to speak welsh in wales. As has been pointed out there are many many monoglot welsh people who live here and manage to live just fine. OP is quite welcome and within her rights to never learn a single word.
But with that choice comes the fact there will be few things that are denied to her as someone without any welsh language skills. In the same way there are a few things denied to me because I couldn’t drive for example . It doesn’t at all affect me day to day...but I can’t hire a car. My decision not to learn has a consequence. It’s that simple.

I don't think many Australians would expect you to speak Maori. Considering the Maori people are from New Zealand.

To the poster below who spoke welsh in Germany to confuse people; my brother and I did that on a ski lift in Austria. One of the Austrians in the gondola turned to us and said “ah, you are from Wales, ja?” We were mortified

Ha ha. Yes it could have backfired for us, too, thankfully it didn't :)

I’m astonished you don’t hear Welsh being spoken in Cardiff, I hear it daily

I've never heard it spoken in Cardiff except when I went into the Welsh language shop. It shows that the efforts to reinvigorate it are bearing fruit though. I was last there in 2014, so quite a while ago now and that was only for a day.

The only people I really feel for are those in S Wales, over 50ish, for whom every dual language road sign is confusing and every dual language leaflet a waste of paper and money.

I am in my sixties and I was born and schooled in Cardiff and am now based in Swansea. I learnt some Welsh at school both primary and secondary but you did not have to take Welsh for O levels in my day. Road signs do not confuse me in the slightest and although I am by no means fluent I have a fair amount of incidental Welsh purely though the means - araf for stop, ar werth is for sale, etc.

I am not sure why people are so threatened by the language - it is something we should be proud of

Interesting that so many are positive about speaking welsh. My mum's family are all Welsh but not Welsh speaking. My cousins children had Welsh medium education and are fluent but wish they'd swapped to English medium for high school.

@iklboo

It is more equivalent to saying I will move to Australia and expect to speak English, rather than Maori.

Oh dear. Te Reo Maori is the language of the Tangata Whenua of Aotearoa/New Zealand. Not Australia.

There is something of a problem with some immigrants to New Zealand being very hostile to the place of Maori and Te Reo Maori in New Zealand, and it's increasing use and prominence in every day life, as well as in education and the public sector.

There is also hostility and rejection within some of the New Zealand born community.

However, it is particularly annoying (to me) when it is people who have chosen to go, and having been allowed, to make New Zealand their home, who then go on to reject what is a fundamental part of New Zealand society now, not just Maori.

Oh, and Te Reo Maori, while increasing in numbers of those who are using it and fluent in it, is still very much a minority language, and there is no expectation that one will be fluent in it, or requirement that one can speak it fluently as an every day language.

There are few (if any) jobs where you'd be expected to speak Te Reo only. There are some jobs where you'd be expected to speak it fluently - particularly in iwi businesses, and of course, if you are teaching Te Reo in an immersion kura (school). There are increasing numbers of jobs where you would be at an advantage if you had some Te Reo and a good understanding of Tikanga Maori (protocol), particularly in the civil sector, education, and increasingly influential iwi businesses.

@mbosnz it’s awesome to hear that the Maori language is increasingly being used. I don’t understand the hostility towards preserving different and beautiful languages.
I watched a documentary yesterday about a language called Sylbo which is a whistling language used on a specific small Canary Island to communicate over long distances. How fantastic is that? We must preserve these things.

I thought of this thread when getting my daughter dressed in her traditional welsh costume this morning for the newspaper pictures. I was really proud. She looked lovely and I loved that our culture is being passed down to another generation. Add to that the rugby on the weekend and I've made the decision that I'm really going to start pushing welsh more at home. We have an amazing history and culture and it should absolutely be preserved.

Also my children absolutely believe that dragons are real 😅 I told them they sleep in the mountains and that's why there's black on some of the mountains where they've burnt them.

I love Wales so much. I remember the first time I went there, and it was on a work team building event. Another Kiwi was there, and he'd been before, and he was so excited for me to see it, literally bouncing up and down, saying 'mbosnz, you're going to love it! It feels like going home!'

He was so right. . .

Someone mentioned their daughter setting their phone autocorrect to Welsh (and now I can't find the post again.) How do you do that, please? Though in any case, my phone tends to offer corrections which aren't valid words in any known language...

@EBearhug - she's told me it's not 'autocorrect' it's the welsh language setting on her phone

Go to language and region (she's got an iphone and it's under general) then press add language and search cymraeg

Thanks, @iolaus.

I am also fiftyish and living in S Wales, not a Welsh speaker and am not, nor have I ever been, remotely confused by the bi-lingual signs. I don’t know anyone who is or who even thinks about it.

If anything, I like seeing them and I’m sad that I don’t speak much Welsh.

Your tale od the ski lift reminded me of a story about dgp in Brussels, they were looking for a post office, mamgu turned to dgf and said"where's the.bloody post office " in welsh, somebody behind them piped it "it's over there love", apparently dgm was glad she'd said anything stronger

Once on a work trip in Brussels, went to the loo in a bar and the words of Hen Wlad fy Nhadau were written out on the cubicle wall. Someone obviously having a bout of hiraeth.

I run a Cheshire based business and we have opened two sites in Wales delivering highly regulated (by an independent Welsh agency) services.

We invested massively in having all our documents and literature produced bilingually - terms of business, contracts of employment, staff handbooks, marketing material etc- and employed a welsh speaker so we could offer interviews and client interface in Welsh.

In four years no one has ever asked for the Welsh versions or been interviewed in Welsh- we employ a large number of staff and very very few can speak any more than very basic Welsh. However front line staff do use Welsh language greetings on the phone.

We are working almost exclusively with the public sector and have won a number of procurement tenders- none have had any onerous or restrictive clauses relating to the Welsh language.

So I'd be surprised if anyone felt they were disadvantaged in business or employment in Wales by not speaking Welsh.