AIBU to think these Welsh language requirements are ridiculous (and bordering on discrimination?)

[DimDimDiolch]

Context: I run a micro business in urban South Wales, where I rarely hear Welsh spoken, and many Welsh born-and-bred people don't speak a word of Welsh. I lived my whole life in England (no Welsh lessons at school - or anywhere else!) until about 18 months ago. I've picked up the odd bit of Welsh here and there (diolch, dim, croeso, nos da, bara, araf - that sort of thing) but I'm far from fluent. My business isn't yet big enough to employ anyone else.

My business is the sort of business where you attend events, pay for a pitch and sell products to the general public.

I've now been denied pitches at a couple of events purely on the grounds that I don't speak Welsh, even though literally everyone locally speaks English (except those who only speak Polish or Urdu...). AIBU to think it's a matter of anti-English sentiment, bordering on discrimination, that I'm experiencing? It all feels a bit 'jobs for the boys' to me, when my Welsh speaking ability has nothing to do with the products I sell.

Gods forbid one moves to a country and learns the local language, aye?

I’m Welsh, first language English, but had a very good Welsh language education. I must admit, I’m very protective over the oldest living language in Europe. Why would you move to a country then moan when expected to learn the language?
When I holiday in other countries I do my best to pick up a few phrases in the local lingo. I think it’s respectful to at least be able to to say hello, goodbye, please, thank you etc and have basic numbers in a local language. Why wouldn’t you want to learn?

Only 19% of people living in Wales speak Welsh, and that is despite the fact it is a compulsory subject at Secondary school!

I have lived in rural Wales for over 15 years, use public transport regularly and work in retail.. I hardly ever hear it anymore, so many locals in my area it would seem, are choosing not to use it to communicate, even with each other.

@chiefclerk What about people born in that country who have not as children been taught Welsh? Should they leave Wales too?

Wasn't just the 19th century donquixotedelamancha. My grandad was born in the 20th century and didn't speak English until he was forced to at school.

I always remember my dm who was a junior dr in the 1960s in Cardiff telling me how she and other native welsh speakers would sometimes be brought in to translate, the main problem was often when you had drs for whom english was a second language and people from heavily welsh speaking areas for whom english was also more or less a second language.

For my dm welsh was her first language, she didn't speak any english til she started school, I'm english born and only have a few words of welsh.

No-one is saying she should go back to England - just that if she thinks it's discriminatory for Welsh people in Wales to ask her to deal in Welsh then she needs to ask herself why she is there.
no one is saying she needs to be bilingual - she is saying that she is excluded from events where Welsh people, in Wales, are asking her to use Welsh. She has no god given right, despite being an English woman, to insist that English is used at these events.

My grandad was born in the 20th century and didn't speak English until he was forced to at school.

Yeah, I knew that too; must be sleepy.

I agree that it's really wrong for a government to force children not to use their own language, just to promote the 'preferred' tongue.

My dm was born in the 1940s so it was as late as the 1960s that she was having to translate

So your username is DimDimDiolch, is it?

Chinny reckon.

Dysgu Cymraeg OP😁

Im learning as where we are people speak to you in Welsh before English. I have never felt thst people are hostile about Welsh just very proud of the heritage and history of their language. It is a beautiful thing. Im hooked.

I’m Welsh, first language English, but had a very good Welsh language education. I must admit, I’m very protective over the oldest living language in Europe.

I'm sure the people of the Basque Country appreciate your protective instincts!

@AlunWynsKnee - my fantasy rugby team is AlunWynsLittleToe
Same, my grandad was born in the 20s and didn't speak English until middle school (about 8 I think?) due it being a legal requirement at the time for education to be in English. Due to that, my dad grew up speaking English first language so he'd 'be advataged' and I'm left with patchy second language Welsh. Despite my ancestor being a bard. People dont realise how fragile this language is

If you speak native-level English, how hard is it to speak English briefly to a fellow Brit who doesn’t know much Welsh? Wouldn’t it be obtuse not to?

The problem there, though, is that the more accommodating you are and the more ground you give, the more it gets taken for granted and the people you are accommodating can start to expect it as their right. Sometimes, your making an effort or even just being willing to concede means that some folk then feel entitled to have you giving way every time.

It's the same principle as when people without children are expected to be the ones to stay late at work, to cover Christmas or to forego holidays in the warmest Summer months. It might be easier for them to do it than for those with kids, but it doesn't mean that they enjoy it or that they wouldn't prefer to have the same opportunities and respect as everybody else.

I agree that it's really wrong for a government to force children not to use their own language, just to promote the 'preferred' tongue.

Which government?

IIRC the UK government did not legislate that a language should be forced, or banned, in schools in any century .

If Welsh teachers in the 19th century forced school children in Wales to speak English then that was their own fault. I very much doubt they were ordered to do it by the government in London

My family looked into moving to Wales decades ago and everyone advised us not to on the basis that businesses routinely discriminate against English people for jobs/services and pretend it’s about a made up need to know Welsh.

Depressing to hear it’s still going on.
Rubbish, unless you are going into the a job where you will need it then it is usually not a requirement. Obviously health and social care, teaching, local government administration and some customer facing roles need it.

I live in a town where pretty much everyone speaks Welsh, including myself, it's my first language and even I am baffled why they would deny you a pitch just because you don't speak welsh 🤷‍♀️ it doesn't make any sense. Never heard of it happening where I live (north Wales)

I am neither English nor Welsh, but it looks strange to me that you decided to move to a different country and not learn the native language. Especially as you mention with disdain those people who speak only Polish or Urdu in your OP.
My country had revived the dying native language through measures like this, and the new generation is fully bilingual (in the old "imperial" language and the native one). Isn't it a good thing?

I’m Welsh. So much nonsense on this thread. People blaming not speaking welsh on their own various failures. Speaking welsh gives you no advantage despite the hype and much of what is written here is outright lies

You aren't clear what this event is. Presumably if it's run by/paid for the local council or the Sennedd, they are entitled to make this a requirement.
I'm not Welsh, I have visited N Wales as a tourist on and off my whole long life. It blows my mind how the language has recovered. And how cool people are about it. I know that's N Wales not S Wales but it's not a big country but it doesn't seem massively unreasonable to be firm about language requirements. If it's inconsistent that's another thing. It shouldn't be.

What a ridiculous thread.

I live in Wales, and I try to speak it as much as possible despite not being fluent. My kids go to a Welsh medium school because I want them to be able to use it. What’s the point if people like you can’t be bothered to at least try?

I'm English and live in north wales where welsh is used a lot, it took me 6 months to find a job due to not speaking welsh. I didnt complain (even though it was disheartening) because I'm in another country, I wouldn't go to France and expect to get a job speaking no French. I got duolingo and I booked a welsh course and now I speak very little welsh but I am trying. You need to try and learn welsh OP.

But the native language of Wales is surely a English, if only 19% of people even speak Welsh?

In your shoes OP I’d consider a move to England as there is clearly a hostile attitude to non-Welsh speakers (even if the large majority of Welsh people do not speak Welsh )

I guess I had better make sure DC do not apply to a Welsh Unis either then, as they are not from there

This thread has been a useful eye opener

Replace 'Wales' with 'Spain', 'Welsh' with 'Spanish', if you still think that not speaking the local language as a public facing entrepreneur is reasonable then yanbu...

Or you are narrow minded, rude and disrespectful of another country's right to protect their already threatened language...

Take your pick op!

(that's from someone in Norway BTW)