AIBU to think these Welsh language requirements are ridiculous (and bordering on discrimination?)

[DimDimDiolch]

Context: I run a micro business in urban South Wales, where I rarely hear Welsh spoken, and many Welsh born-and-bred people don't speak a word of Welsh. I lived my whole life in England (no Welsh lessons at school - or anywhere else!) until about 18 months ago. I've picked up the odd bit of Welsh here and there (diolch, dim, croeso, nos da, bara, araf - that sort of thing) but I'm far from fluent. My business isn't yet big enough to employ anyone else.

My business is the sort of business where you attend events, pay for a pitch and sell products to the general public.

I've now been denied pitches at a couple of events purely on the grounds that I don't speak Welsh, even though literally everyone locally speaks English (except those who only speak Polish or Urdu...). AIBU to think it's a matter of anti-English sentiment, bordering on discrimination, that I'm experiencing? It all feels a bit 'jobs for the boys' to me, when my Welsh speaking ability has nothing to do with the products I sell.

Just tell us which events you’ve been excluded from OP.

Oh come on! I’m all for learning some Welsh and greeting people in their own language as a courtesy, but I’ve never met an adult monolingual Welsh speaker in Wales. Apparently, there were still several thousand monolingual Welsh speakers at the time of the 1981 census, but I haven’t seen any proof that a single one is still around (with the exception of children under the age of six or seven).

If you speak native-level English, how hard is it to speak English briefly to a fellow Brit who doesn’t know much Welsh? Wouldn’t it be obtuse not to?

Learn Welsh - as the poster above said Our language was almost completely forced out by those who thought that English speaking was superior we absolutely have the right to try and fix that problem. I'm from North Wales, we learned our language until we finished high school (I actually have a GCSE in Cymreig) and would want to see at a minimum a dual language at stalls etc.

You don't live in an extension of England, you live in another country with their own language and heritage and should be respectful of that.

Hmmmm. This isn’t about you and purposely excluding you [as an English speaker], its about stopping the decline of the Welsh language and culture. It’s about recognising the uniqueness and value of the Welsh culture and providing an environment in which it can continue.

I’m non-Welsh (not even English) and live on the borders, but just on the English side. I am amazed that they don’t have Welsh as a second language in the local school, considering that probably about half of the kids live in Wales and all of us have our GPs in Wales. It just shows the lack of value people place on this aspect and why there has to be active encouragement from the Welsh government.

I’m sure you’ve already found this but here are some free Welsh language courses to get you started...

@Cattenberg No it wouldn't be hard. How hard would it be for the OP to learn a bit of Welsh as a bit of respect for the country she has moved to?
I bet the "welsh requirements" she is talking about are ludicrously low

I'm sure that any lessons, etc., you do could offset tax as you're self-employed. So it wouldn't cost you as much as you think.

It’s irrelevant whether Welsh speakers can also speak English. Why should they?

IME as a recruiter, I'd say that depends on whether they're interested in mobility and opportunities beyond just Wales

Disturbing to actually see it suggested that OP should go back where she came from to England, though ... it's years since I've seen that kind of attitude openly expressed

Come on OP , where's the proof ? Put your money where your mouth is.

It’s similar in Ireland where there are often grants or perks or other benefits available to people who speak Irish. IMO it’s not so much anti-English as pro a language that might die out otherwise.

It’s benefited my family in some ways - my aunt (who has Irish as her mother tongue and only learned English when she went to school at age 7) got a generous allowance towards fixing her roof because she was an Irish speaker. In fact she was more fluent in Irish than the government official sent round to check on her. He could ask her a few scripted, roof related questions in Irish but floundered when she offered him a cup of tea and tried to have a chat with him! My DS on the other hand, lost out because after getting a good degree at an Irish uni he couldn’t go on to teacher training because you have to have Irish to qualify as a teacher in Ireland. However he has been told that if he does a PGCE and gets some teaching experience in the U.K. he can then be employed as a teacher in an Irish secondary school! Swings and roundabouts!

How hard would it be for the OP to learn a bit of Welsh as a bit of respect for the country she has moved to
Exactly, it’s rude to not even try.
And for the posters saying hardly anyone speaks Welsh in the South - I’m bilingual and there’s lots of us who speak Welsh here. I’ve been accused of making people feel unwelcome when I speak in my native language to other Welsh speakers

Why irish and scots gaelic is all but lost

Nearly two million Irish citizens say they speak Irish according to the census. There is a healthy Irish language education sector and well-attended summer schools. Friends from Cork and Dublin spoke Irish as a matter of course through school; Irish is the official first language of the Republic with English second. While it is not widely spoken on a daily basis as a first language, there's a strong will behind its retention, which is now spreading to Northern Ireland and possibly becoming a bit of a political hot potato due to the unionists.

As for Gaelic, again it is one of the official languages of Scotland. Government documents and Hansard are produced in both languages and Gaelic has been used in Parliament, for speeches as well as swearing in, as has Scots. There is a huge appetite for Gaelic medium education in the central belt which is limited by the number of teachers going into Gaelic-medium education and adult classes are popular. I can think of at least two national newspapers which publish articles in Gaelic and in Scots. In the Western Isles, it's not that unusual for children and young adults not to have learned English until they went to school. It seems to be part of the uprising of national pride not to let Scots and Gaelic die out, not to have just another aspect of our culture be taken away in the name of united kingdoms.

I think you have to say which events.

I'm a small business owner in a Welsh speaking part of Wales, I hear Welsh every day in my life, and I've never had any experience comparable to this. I can't think of any situation in which I could say I've felt discriminated against as a non-Welsh speaker (I understand a lot but don't speak functionally).

IME pretty much every Welsh speaker I know other than primary school teachers would rather speak English than put up with stumbling Welsh from a learner - which is why it's so hard to get beyond the basics. Determined learners I know have to make an effort to join Welsh medium clubs / go to Caffi Clonc events & the like just to get some practice in on people who aren't going to just revert to English at the first opportunity.

Apologies to those on this thread who are tolerant of learners! I'm sure lots are, just that IME on the whole quite understandably people get fed up of struggling to communicate when its so easy to switch to English

I've never come across this, tbh. Years of business experience in Wales...

I was going to say YANBU. But I live in an area with many Polish shops staffed largely by middleaged women who seemingly speak not a word of English. The customers are clearly 95% Polish; I go there for good cold meats and bread but in several years have never encountered another English-only customer though occasionally run into a French one having the same problem as me. The produce - if wrapped - won't necessarily have an English list of ingredients on the label. Usually I manage by pointing to what I want; but if I need to ask a question, the young staff at least try to be helpful, and we muddle through; the older ladies (and I mean over-40s!) look at me as if to say, you're not welcome shopping here! I realise that most of their business is conducted in Polish. But AIBU to think that if you're selling food in Britain, you should be able to provide basic information about ingredients in the language of that country? And I suppose the same goes for Wales!
I don't really care that I never get as much as good morning - thank you- or goodbye from the grouchy ladies - although friends have said that they won't shop there as they feel so unwelcome.

Only public services have to be bilingual, not private businesses
Yes but if the event(s) you are talking about are sponsored/funded by the local/national government then they will have to put a bilingual requirement in place.

It's your suggestion of this being 'discriminatory' that rankles.

I'm English but spent ~15 years in North Wales and came to appreciate the strength and value of the Welsh culture. (when ALL the teens you know bugger off to the national eisteddfod - a festival of poetry, dance, music and drama - it's very sobering to realise that as English we have nothing like it and are poorer for it.)

I run a business in Wales, I've had a lot of help from Business Wales, I've attended and won pitching events and I've never spoken a word of welsh and no one has ever cared! I am English.
Is this one person who's holding you back? Is that what's happened?
For what it's worth I love the Welsh, the language and have found running a business FAR easier than near London
The help available (export, investment to name 2 key areas) has been phenomenal

My dgs is Welsh and goes to school in North Wales. He is bilingual and a friend once asked me why the school didn’t teach him a more useful second language. I replied they do - English.
People just can’t get their heads around Welsh being his first language.
In South Wales a lot less Welsh people speak the language so I’m surprised at this regulation. I have a few South Walian friends who only know Welsh swear words.
@Frankiestein402 so should all Welsh nationals who can’t speak Welsh be making more effort to learn their own language?

What waffles80 said, with bells on.

Also, there may not be many left in Wales who don’t speak English (they will be very old or very young) but there are certainly many who feel most confident in their first language, which is Welsh. Everyone has a right to Welsh language services within Wales.

Learn Welsh. Or move?

Born in England, live in England, don't speak any Welsh except the fragments on signs etc.

The Welsh fought hard to keep the last shreds of their culture. One of the effects of that was the promotion of the Welsh language. Make an effort to work with the people who live around you, show respect to their language and even learn a little more than diolch yn fawr.

www.duolingo.com/course/cy/en/Learn-Welsh

Businesses have to jump through all sorts of red tape like taxes, insurances, safety standards etc. Why not add a few minutes each day learning a language that is helpful in developing your business. It's just logical.

You find me some free, local Welsh lessons and I'd be happy to attend.

You have Internet. I’ve just had a google and found loads. You don’t even have to leave your sofa. Duolingo for starters.

Hmm. I lived in Welsh speaking North Wales for a few years. There were a few events that were WAG/ EU subsidised that were purely for promotion of businesses working first language Welsh, this was five years ago now. These were monthly market/ craft fair type things. People who were promoting use of the Welsh language by having bilingual labelling on everything got in too.