AIBU to think these Welsh language requirements are ridiculous (and bordering on discrimination?)

[DimDimDiolch]

Context: I run a micro business in urban South Wales, where I rarely hear Welsh spoken, and many Welsh born-and-bred people don't speak a word of Welsh. I lived my whole life in England (no Welsh lessons at school - or anywhere else!) until about 18 months ago. I've picked up the odd bit of Welsh here and there (diolch, dim, croeso, nos da, bara, araf - that sort of thing) but I'm far from fluent. My business isn't yet big enough to employ anyone else.

My business is the sort of business where you attend events, pay for a pitch and sell products to the general public.

I've now been denied pitches at a couple of events purely on the grounds that I don't speak Welsh, even though literally everyone locally speaks English (except those who only speak Polish or Urdu...). AIBU to think it's a matter of anti-English sentiment, bordering on discrimination, that I'm experiencing? It all feels a bit 'jobs for the boys' to me, when my Welsh speaking ability has nothing to do with the products I sell.

@DimDimDiolch
No no thanks to you too. Off you pop to a country where you can speak the language.

In the rest of the UK there doesn’t seem to be a requirement to speak fluent English to get a job, especially the type of set up you are referring to.

As someone born and bred in South Wales and married to a working Englishman who has been living and working here 15 years from 18. I find all of this very hard to believe.

I find it narcissistic that it’s perceived as discrimination against the specifically English. Why is the preservation of the Welsh language directed at English people. It isn’t. Plenty of other nationalities live in Wales and learn the language as part of the course.

Could you use one of those apps to improve your language skills op? Not free but cheap.
Or ask your friend to attend the events with you and pay her?

Well I would show willing by using duolingo. In the meantime and I speak as someone who has attended many such events for a charity,( I do not miss the crazy early starts, struggles with emptying van and setting up.) you could be a bit sneaky and say a % of your proceeds to go to charity, I would suggest Wales Air Ambulance, that may get your foot in the door.

@DimDimDiolch
Who is the organiser of these "large events that are open to the public" - is it the local authority?

The only events that I could imagine that to be a requirement for would be Urdd / Eisteddfod ?

What events have you been excluded from op?

I think this sort of thing is exactly why there IS still a welsh language. Because its protected.
Lack of these protections mean minority languages die. Why noone speaks cornish. Why irish and scots gaelic is all but lost.

I live in a very Welsh speaking area but do not speak Welsh myself. I find it difficult to believe that you were refused on these grounds. Did they perhaps ask that any posters/ leaflets be bilingual? I find that much more likely.

Which couple of events was it? I have attended many Welsh speaking events - including the Urdd and the National Eisteddfod- and not all of the stall holders spoke Welsh.

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, All adverts for teaching in Welsh? Not true either, unless it was for a Welsh designated language school - and if you can't speak Welsh then no, you would not be able to teach in them. And quite right too. Welsh is ab ancient language that was push almost to the point of extinction. It is now regaining speakers and is something I am very proud of as part of my culture.

FGS not this again.
Just waiting for someone to come in and relate how we all switch to Welsh when someone English comes into the shop.

It is all about attitude. Learn a bit of Welsh OP, use Duolingo (takes about 5 mins a day, and veers towards South Welsh rather than North Welsh), or Say Something is Welsh.
You don't have to be fluent, but a bit of effort goes a long way. Get a price list done in Welsh, and practice some phrases.

It is an actual language, not some kind of Government gimmick, that many many people speak every day, and function in as their native language, and it is FAR older than English, and been in the British Isles longer. Too right it should be protected.

Makes me mad when I am told my language is not important. In my own country. I don't expect Welsh provision when I travel to England. That would be unreasonable. It's not a big ask really if you think about it. If you had moved to France would you not expect to learn French, even if you did live in an Anglais Enclave?

Have a go www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learning/learnwelsh/
I'm Welsh a product of the Welsh education system where even friends with parents who were Welsh first languge can't speak it. We were taught in ineffective ways, not encouraged and failed miserably.
My Welsh is dire, I can use and understand bits, I use it at work with clients and do what I can. Understanding more than I can speak.
Dd was taught in a much better way, is fluent, and doing her GCSE's in Welsh in Welsh medium high school.
Welsh has to be preserved or it will die.
I went to the Eisteddfod last summer with Dd, it was lovely to hear so many people around us using Welsh. If it's that or Urdd, then they weren't unreasonable to have a rule that someone speaks Welsh to have a booth.

I am Welsh, (S.Wales) was taught Welsh in primary and comprehensive school, and I've never liked it but completely understand they want to keep the language from dying.

I do think it's ridiculous that they are discriminating against businesses for lack of Welsh, unless it is an event for mainly Welsh speakers of course.

Would you answer the Q from several PPs about the events being Eisteddfod? In which case you really can’t complain - they’re Welsh Language events!

My boss was born and raised in Wales and is pretty bitter that he could not get the English job he currently does, in Wales, as he does not speak Welsh.

Well if it’s the Eisteddfod then yes I get it. It’s literally about the celebration of welsh language and culture. I bet you could speak any language you fancy at the Big Cheese, for example.

The company I worked for was private sector with an English HQ, with various sites in Wales. They soon worked out where their customers expected services in Welsh and resourced accordingly.

Hmm. What events exactly? If it's The Urdd/ Eisteddfod/Tafwyl Yabu, as they're Welsh language events, the whole point is that they're immersive 100% Welsh language experiences.
I can't think of anything else you'd be excluded from on the grounds of language? Local Welsh school fair? If so yanbu.

I bet you could speak any language you fancy at the Big Cheese, for example.

Quite, I know a fair few people who are not Welsh speakers who have had a stall at The Big Cheese. This whole thread smells like bullshit

I don’t think it’s discrimination at all. I think it’s a very sensible attempt to maintain the language.

It’s irrelevant whether Welsh speakers can also speak English. Why should they? The U.K. has a number of ‘native’ languages and English has trampled over most of them over the centuries. 🙄

I’m not Welsh but I think it’s a good thing to underline the fact that Welsh is the language of Wales in as many practical ways as possible. It helps ensure the language’s survival.

As for free Welsh resources, why not try your local library who might well have an audio course you could do at your own pace?

Even the Welsh language festivals have non Welsh speaking stall holders - met some lovely Australians in the Urdd a few tears ago making a fortune on the juice stand.
Please tell us specifically which events you were turned away from?

I’m English, living in the same part of South Wales and run a small business. I’ve never had this issue. I’m trying to learn Welsh but I still at very basic level. There are definitely pockets of Welsh people who stick together and I’ve encountered some hostility, but there’s way more people about who are not like that.

Are you trying to exhibit at Welsh Language events? If so YABU. You need to speak Welsh. The language needs to be preserved. If it’s a problem for you hire a Welsh speaker for the event to do the front facing work. It’s part of your cost of doing business. Or pay for courses, there are loads around.

There are government funded Welsh lessons across Cardiff (and other areas in Wales). I live in Cardiff and paid £70 for 9 months of Welsh lessons, at 4 hours a week. They also offer discounts if you're on a low income - I don't think you can expect them much cheaper than that.

Is the event you're referring to Tafwl? Because that's a Welsh language festival, so there will be a requirement to speak Welsh. For others there's no such requirement.

Contact your local Business officer. Here is what they can help you with:

This bespoke service can help you use more Welsh in your business free of charge.

Your local business support officer can:

translate signs, menus, social media messages and promotional materials for free

provide bilingual merchandise such as Open / Closed signs and badges that indicate you and your staff speak Welsh or are learning

help you market and promote your business to Welsh speakers

help you increase Welsh language customer services and help you recruit Welsh speakers and Welsh learners

give advice on local networks that can support your business

direct you to learning providers that will help improve Welsh language skills at any level

Cardiff is Catrin Cooke - contact details here:

Tel: 07809731589
E-mail: [email protected]

There is a free Welsh for Work course online:

learnwelsh.cymru/work-welsh/work-welsh-courses/

If, in the future you can spare some money, the entry level course over 24 weeks costs £90. It's very reasonable.

Let me know how you get on. Pob Lwc!

When a language is eradicated systematically by an imperialist nation who present their language / culture / religion as superior, so much more than the language dies. Cultures, histories and identities are embedded within language.

It's terrible when a powerful minority force their language onto the majority against their will. Schools prevented children from speaking their native language, even outside of class, and government jobs were kept for those who spoke the preferred language.

Thank goodness all that stuff is confined to the 19th century.