AIBU to think these Welsh language requirements are ridiculous (and bordering on discrimination?)

[DimDimDiolch]

Context: I run a micro business in urban South Wales, where I rarely hear Welsh spoken, and many Welsh born-and-bred people don't speak a word of Welsh. I lived my whole life in England (no Welsh lessons at school - or anywhere else!) until about 18 months ago. I've picked up the odd bit of Welsh here and there (diolch, dim, croeso, nos da, bara, araf - that sort of thing) but I'm far from fluent. My business isn't yet big enough to employ anyone else.

My business is the sort of business where you attend events, pay for a pitch and sell products to the general public.

I've now been denied pitches at a couple of events purely on the grounds that I don't speak Welsh, even though literally everyone locally speaks English (except those who only speak Polish or Urdu...). AIBU to think it's a matter of anti-English sentiment, bordering on discrimination, that I'm experiencing? It all feels a bit 'jobs for the boys' to me, when my Welsh speaking ability has nothing to do with the products I sell.

You still haven't said what type of event it is. Assuming in is Eisteddfod, or a Welsh language event then YABU, have you asked them to explain why?

*it is

I see the OP is being deliberately provocative & still won't give straight answers. But we know she likes Spain - there's a solution. Wales won't miss you at all.

If I knew many Welsh people who actually spoke Welsh, it would be different. I have a friend who was born, bred and has always lived in Wales, but had no idea what Nadolig Llawen meant. Another friend who grew up in rural South West Wales also speaks sod all Welsh. I've got a couple of friends who sometimes work for me at big events where I need an extra pair of hands - neither of them speak Welsh despite having been educated here in the 90s and 00s!

The default language of life and business in Cardiff is English.

And that, Dim, is exactly why there are Welsh-language-only organisations and events.

If you are in a business in Wales you need to speak Welsh. I don't speak it as a welsh person, only basics. I have some strong views on how it is being pushed and funded in our schools.
This is wales, and like it or not we have a language that people want to make popular again. It will help your business to learn. Best wishes because its bloody hard!

I have the verbal equivalent of two left feet when it comes to languages, and have tried without success to become fluent in two other languages, so I sympathise as to how hard it can be.

But my lack of capacity doesn't invalidate the cultural value of preserving a beautiful language, rich in history and heritage.

Seems a bit much to expect non Welsh people to learn Welsh as a courtesy when about 80 percent of the Welsh themselves don’t speak it.

Seems a bit much to expect non Welsh people to learn Welsh as a courtesy when about 80 percent of the Welsh themselves don’t speak it.

Seems a bit much to expect an event specifically aimed at promoting and encouraging the use of the Welsh language to accommodate non Welsh speaking vendors.

Seems a bit much to expect non Welsh people to learn Welsh as a courtesy

But no one's expecting her to learn it as a courtesy. They're expecting her to learn it if she wants to have a stall at an event which exists to promote the Welsh language.

My eldest works in a restaurant in Cardiff, while the majority of the time people dining there are speaking English if she hears them speaking Welsh to each other she will automatically address them in Welsh, it's not that unusual for it to happen.
We live a little north of Cardiff and I hear Welsh fairly frequently, - I know my second daughter has her autocorrect on her phone set to Welsh because she got fed up with it trying to divert to the nearest English word (this came up because I asked her to translate something on my phone into welsh and she got fed up with mine trying to write in english). Although when she got to 16 she switched to an english medium college rather than welsh medium school she still keeps up her bilingualism

Funnily enough when we were in Poland the 8 year old decided that he was going to speak Welsh the entire trip because he couldn't speak Polish but noone was talking English so neither was he

No one would expect the OP to be fluent in Welsh to have a stall, just some basic conversational Welsh along with bilingual posters etc.

No one ‘expects’ anyone to learn Welsh. If the OP wants stalls in events specifically designated as welsh language events however she needs a welsh speaker to front the stall. Or to have a basic vocabulary. That’s all, no more, no less.

OP 90% of what you wrote is a major exaggeration, and I suspect that most of the remaining 10% is a fib.
I live in North Wales, where the Welsh actually DO speak Welsh, and I know that if you want money or services from Welsh government then you have to demonstrate SOME commitment to the Welsh language and culture. That could be as simple as hanging a sign up saying Croeso (Welcome).
If you are working for or are directly receiving funding from WAG then any documents you produce with their money must be bi-lingual. Seems fair enough to me. The French are also very protective about their language. Does it border on discrimination that they expect people to speak/write in French?
No? Then why do you expect the Welsh not to do the same? Oh, I know, it's because you think Wales is really part of England, don't you?
I'm not Welsh, though I have lived here most of my life, and my children were all born here. I'm proud to live in Wales, and think people who move into a country should make an effort to learn to speak the native language. And just because Welsh people have bothered to learn both languages doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to do the same

"I really have to question if someone selling burgers, coffee, pot plants or novelty wellies (it's none of those, but you get the point) and their mastery of the Welsh language has any real impact on the event as a whole?"

But if EVERY (or a large number of) stall owner didn't speak Welsh then it WOULD have a "real impact on the event as a whole." It would them not be a Welsh language event.

I speak as someone who learnt Welsh in school as a 2nd language, have a degree in Welsh and have been teaching Welsh in one of the most successful state secondary schools in Wales for over 20 years.
Plenty of my ex-pupils now use Welsh in their jobs and a small number have gone on to teach Welsh themselves.
Open your mind OP, your pigheadedness is childish.

Ragglesnaggle

Quite. If they decide to let one burger-seller in who will only take orders in English and pointing , where will it stop? Before you know it, it will become a English-dominated event.

If OP wants to target the Welsh-speaking pound, she will have to put some work in for it, and try to avoid being deliberately culturally tone-deaf to the sector, just as she would have to with any other untapped market. As all successful businessowners have to, if they want others to buy their goods!

Turning up to multiple Welsh language events and expecting people to make their orders in English is, as these things go, a bad way to market yourself. She should be glad they said hell no to her applications.

So many rules and regulations to flog trinkets. Couldn't be bothered with it personally

As I said above. Scotland had it's own law system and always has.
And you call me ignorant

Yup. As you don't know that legislation was and still is enacted in London. When I was studying Scots Law, a cracking example was a 19th century Cemeteries Act which took a lot of lawyers arguing whether it was applicable to Scotland; when it was decided that it was, the only court named in the act was an English court with no remit in Scotland. Just because an act says (Scotland) in the title, it doesn't mean that it actually was passed by a Scottish legislature. That applies to all of the nations of the British Isles when power was/is held in London. Do keep up. It's not difficult to understand that the legislative body is separate from the justice system and all those examples actually came from the legislative bodies which have been based in or controlled by London for most of the time. Westminster controlled and enacted Scottish laws in the nineteenth century, controlled the Irish Parliament between 1297 and 1800 and enacted laws for Wales since the Acts of Union in 1535 and 1542. Therefore all of the examples given were examples (and I chose early ones for Ireland and Wales) of Westminster passing laws against the native languages of the three nations subjugated to it.

I find it very interesting that you don't seem to understand the difference between the legislature and the judicial system.

TooManyPaws
All very interesting for cemetery enthusiasts but what has this got to do with Scotland and the Education Acts?
Scotland implemented its own laws on compulsory education, entirely independent of and before England and Wales.
BTW could you please quit with the personal insults.

@Waffles80 explained on the first page everything I wanted to say.

Barring the things I don't have the time or energy for. Sometimes there's just no explaining, no getting through to people.

Learning the Welsh language has been one of the most fun and most impressive achievements for me. And wherever in the valleys you live or visit, there are pockets of fluent/ mammolaeth Welsh speakers who do use the language in their day to day lives.

Considering how long the Welsh language revival has been going on and the shit there is over it, poor Cornwall are going to be in for hell once people realise they're doing the same with the Cornish language.

Some words do jot translate and so the English is used. It doesn't mean they are speaking in English.
There are indeed many loan words, particularly for more recent terms: trên, bws, stêm, Wicipedia, sigarét. In addition, even where a Welsh word exists, many people use an English term when is is easier (code switching is the technical term for this phenomenon).

A man who left Wales for NZ many decades ago returned for a visit. Younger pubgoers in Pwllheli were enthralled with this person who spoke "proper Welsh" without anglicising.

Funnily enough when we were in Poland the 8 year old decided that he was going to speak Welsh the entire trip because he couldn't speak Polish but noone was talking English so neither was he
My Great Aunt and her late husband were holidaying abroad. German guests were running rings around the English in the stereotypical fashion. My Great Aunt then conversed with her husband in Welsh which bewildered the Germans who left them well alone.

Interestingly where I live in North Wales people are very disparaging about 'Cardiff Welsh', I always assumed it was equivalent to my Home Counties English.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but dh, who was welsh-medium educated, was adamant his children wouldn't be, make of that what you will.

They are taught it as a second language but it's not really embedding, no language will unless you use it a lot, which is a problem with mandating learning it.

They are taught it as a second language but it's not really embedding, no language will unless you use it a lot, which is a problem with mandating learning it.

It's difficult to learn a language fluently without being immersed in an environment where speaking - and thinking - in the target language feels completely natural. That's one reason why organisations like Menter Caerdydd try so hard to create events where this can happen!

What is it with Wales Ireland and scotland hating on the english?
Will I have to forever be sorry for the sins of generations gone by just because I was born in England? We really need to be more united and people need to drop the anger and bitterness.

Where ha s there been anger and bitterness?!

Forgive us for wanting to preserve our language and culture!!

Seriously what an ignorant comment.