Child care by grandparents not working out

[Onlyforthis2]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Signed up to give one person advice, hense the username, but find myself needing to ask opinions.

My mum and dad have very kindly provided free childcare one day a week since November when I increased my hours at work. When the arrangement came about DH and I agreed that we would only increase my hours if we could afford nursery for that extra day should grandparents childcare fall through. All good.
As much as it works well for us, my parents love having DS once a week and frankly don't shut up about it the rest of the week either! Which makes this next bit even more difficult.

Yesterday, got home from work to find DS over tired and all in a fuss. Fine, annoying for me but take it he's had fun with them so just deal with it. Then find DM is patting DS on the bum using more force than I was comfortable with and playfully saying 'naughty'. I straight away said no we don't pat like that or use the word naughty. The patting especially alarmed me for some reason. Anyway, DS then slaps me on the face and DM on the back. So I explain to DS that we don't hit and explain to DM that that DS doesn't know the difference between a pat and a hit so me telling him not to hit and them patting him will be confusing. They seemed to understand. It did bring back some awful memories for me being punished with a slap as a child though and I felt uneasy.

Then find out DS routine was all out of sorts, having lunch 2 hours late, sleeping in his buggy (explains the over tiredness, sleep was not long enough and of poor quality) due to DM deciding she had things to do in town and dragging DS around with her.
DM has in the past not fed DS enough despite me preportioning (leftovers) because she didn't feel he needed it. Has slapped DS hand when he bit her once. DF has also tried to force parenting styles on me and Dh a few times too.

I feel I should just stop it and put DS in nursery the extra day. It's an additional 200 pound a month for us but is there really a price on your kids being somewhere you have no doubts about?

So my AIBU is more of a WWYD.
Would you use nursery for those days?
Trial DS in nursery the extra day for a while to see if behaviour and routine improves?
And how on earth do I sack my parents?! They're the types to hold a grudge and I will have other family on the phone within minutes asking how I could be so mean.
Please help!
DS is 16 months if that's relevant

To be fair apart from the tapping his hand when he bit her the OP sounds absolutely pathetic.
I'm always playfully slapping my babies bum and calling her naughty in a jokey way. She finds it hilarious.
You cannot stick to a routine 100% so she took him out in a buggy, big deal. She had stuff to do. What do you do OP when you have things to do. Nothing?
I'm presuming this is your first child. You need to get over yourself before he goes to school or you are in for a bumpy ride ahead of you.

Sorry, patting also.

To me the 'patting' and 'tapping' are just smacking. People are just trying to make it seem better by using the words tap and pat, they sound more gentle, but it basically a smack. Unless it's a regional thing.

Could they do a 'half-day' maybe - pick him up from nursery after he's had his nap/lunch? Have had similar struggles with grandparents minding. It worked out much better on my second child when I had childcare, but grandparents had ds one afternoon, or weekend afternoon. I didn't feel beholden, or worry about lack of routine - it was just a 'fun afternoon', and I didn't worry about behaviour patterns or stuff like that, and they didn't get exhausted and 'at the end of their tether' IUKWIM. It's a tough one. I think the idea of a half-day rather than a full day might work better?

Nursery, end of.

Unless they stopped hitting him as a punishment I wouldn't leave them in charge of him

PIL who parade her around Tesco, the bank, their mates

Parade? That's a really loaded and unnecessary word to use.
FFS that's what a child's life is when they're at home with their mum. And it's why I chose a childminder rather than a nursery. I wanted my child to have a normal life.

As for the PP who said she saw grandparents in coffee shops with bored kids in a buggy, my local coffee shops are full of groups of mums chatting with babies and toddlers in buggies.

It’s only one day a week and it sounds like it’s been going fine for a couple of months. Patting a bum with a nappy on is not the same as smacking, a tap on the hand for biting someone is not an over the top reaction. Food intake is variable depending on appetite and I don’t think children need pressure to eat everything on their plate if they are full. A bit of flexibility is needed regarding naps and sometimes they don’t sleep so long, it won’t cause long term issues.

My parents used smacking amongst other things to discipline their 4 kids. Not frequently nor excessively but they have never smacked a child that isn’t theirs. They provided 1 or 2 days childcare a week for me to sleep after night shifts and still do the odd day in the holidays or cover sickness and they have a lovely relationship with my kids.

I think I would think hard about switching their day to a nursery day. I’d give them a chance after your chat and see how the next couple of weeks go. Check that nursery even have a space for the day you need.

If you decide to switch because you don’t trust them you won’t be able to trust them to babysit in the evenings or look after him if he can’t attend nursery for sickness. You are basically saying they can only see him on supervised visits. Which is fine if you are not happy with their care, it is your decision to make.

God, playfully saying naughty while patting his bum - call 111 this time in a year or two and your kid is running rings around you, you might look back at this and wish you hadn't been so precious, trust me.

Hitting his hand when he bit her is also fine in my opinion. I would imagine a hell of a lot more effective than "no thank you" in a light and airy tone!

I'd imagine they'll be secretly relieved when you say he will be attending nursery the extra day, because I can guarantee their eyes are rolling the minute you leave with all your rules

I have sympathy with your objection to the patting/tapping/smacking, although it would be helpful if you would say which it was, as they aren't really the same. But clearly it's not a helpful way to discipline and if they hit you as a child it's reasonable to worry it may escalate. But what on earth is wrong with the word 'naughty'? How is your DS to learn what is and isn't socially acceptable behaviour if you won't permit the use of the word naughty in his presence? I find that very odd.

I would actually handle this more directly than most pp, and make it clear that any smacking (or similar) is not how you want to discipline your child and that they need to make a firm commitment not to do it. I don't think there's much value in upsetting them by ending the arrangement on a point of principle unless you're prepared to explain and defend that principle. You'll know if they break their promise because he'll mimic their behaviour. For me, that would be the point to enrol him for the extra day, not now.

Was yesterday the first time you spoke with them about not smacking/ how you prefer to discipline your son if his behaviour is naughty? To be fair parenting advice and techniques seem to evolve pretty rapidly. In another 30 years time they'll probably be outrage that people in 2020 were saying a child's behaviour is naughty. I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all (quite the opposite) but if your parents haven't been responsible for children since they raised you, they can't really be fully blamed for not knowing the current techniques and language.

If on the other hand they've spent lots of time seeing how you parent. Or there have been lots of conversations on how you want to do things and they're deliberately ignoring your wishes then that's a different matter.

Ultimately it's what you and your DH feel comfortable with.

but if your parents haven't been responsible for children since they raised you, they can't really be fully blamed for not knowing the current techniques and language.

This is a very good point. Thinking about it, my mum does use the word 'naughty' with DD. I don't really mind though as it is always accompanied by a good explanation of what DD is doing wrong.

We've had conversations about smacking. I was smacked as a child but very rarely (maybe 4 or 5 occasions in total throughout childhood) and I have said very clearly that I don't want smacking to be a tool that is used for discipline with DD and I don't want her to ever be properly scared of whoever is looking after her.

Elbeagle

If you have to that's one thing. My friends mother looks after her daughter and i see her in town a lot and she simply doesn't want to. She likes to eat lunch out with her friend and does not care about the fact that many toddlers tend to sleep around 1ish. So on days she cares for the child she gets a cat nap somewhere in a pram. Every week.

To me, that's a bit selfish. To never ever acknowledge a child needs a nap because you like eating lunch out.

I see numerous grandparents with small children who appear to regard this as incompatible with their retirement lifestyles 🙈
I would be mighty pissed off to be lumbered with a baby just as I was starting to enjoy the freedom of retirement

My own parents are a complete pair of bastards and I would never ever have inflicted them up on my children

“It did bring back some awful memories for me being punished with a slap as a child though and I felt uneasy.”
This is key for me.

My Dad used to hit me as a child. A lot.
He uses the phrase ‘it never did you any harm’. A lot.
I bite my tongue for the sake of the relationship. A lot.

He never has and never will look after my children alone because deep down I simply don’t trust him not to hit them like he hit me.

Time to pay up for nursery.

Grandparents watching kids is a gift and a privilege. If you don’t like how it’s being done then don’t ask them.

My dad used to hit me as a child a lot
Lamp him one now .....see how harmful he finds that!

Are people not allowed to call a child “naughty” anymore? Also a tap in a playful way or even a tap on the hand after biting someone is a lot different than a slap.

It’s free child care, you can’t expect someone to look after your child in the exact way you look after them, to stick to a strict routine.

My kids are teenagers now, maybe I’m a bit out of touch but it seems the world has gone crazy with what you can and cannot say/do around a baby, how you should stick to a set lunch and bed time.

A playfully tapped my kids bums, I would have also tapped their hand if they bit me (they never did bite), my kids are not scared by my actions nor have they ever laid a finger on anyone or slapped me in the face.

Having such rigid routines and rules is just setting your child up for having problems because routine can not always be stuck too because life gets in the way.

@Lovemusic33 she said slap and tap regarding two different occasions. One was a tap and one was a slap.

I think it depend a bit if she was calling him nauvhty for being naughty or just for fussing. I would have a problem with my mum saying my DD was naughty because she was crying/ wouldn't settle. Having feelings or being unable to calm down, at 16 months, is not naughty.

I don't think anything you've said is that bad although I do think not giving the full portion of food is strange. Could you not just tell them you want him to have all the food? Talk about what bothers although yabu about the nap in the buggy. That's something he'll get used to and gives you/grandmother more freedom. I would try to sort things rather than take him out. Not because of money but because your parents love him more than the nursery workers

Grandparents watching kids is a gift and a privilege

The fact that the pat made you uneasy and brought back uncomfortable memories says enough to stop sole charge and suck up the extra cost.
My parents looked after my eldest one day a week many years ago and there were quite a few things that I wasn't wild about (lack of routine, too many treats etc) but these were totally harmless and I never for one minute worried about his well-being or safety otherwise I would have stopped it immediately.

'Patting', and 'Tapping' is semantics. It was done to punish a behaviour disapproved of. It's a smack by another name. Regardless of whether I smacked my child or not, God Help anyone else that laid a damned finger on my child - and that included grandparents, and they knew it. Smacking a 16 month old is bloody pathetic. As a teenaged babysitter I would never have contemplated it and knew better. I would think grandparents would have managed to figure it out along the way.

If the food had been offered, that's okay. Appetites vary from day to day. If it was not offered because GP had other things on the go and/or couldn't be bothered or forgot, that's not okay. I always pre-portioned my kids food, because I knew their appetites and likes and dislikes, as well as what I'd prefer them to be eating - makes it easier for everybody.

With the routine thing, they're doing you a favour, providing you with free childcare. Of course they're going to expect to be able to do their thing, while the babe is there. If you feel this is to the detriment of the babe, then yes, you're going to have to reconsider.

Using the word naughty? Yes, definitely used it, as in, 'no X we don't bite Y, it is naughty to bite.'

So I'm coming down on the side of tactfully (some PP's must be master diplomats in their elegant ways of telling the GP's that their childminding services will no longer be required!) arranging nursery and ending the childminding arrangement with the GP's, and making sure they still have ample opportunity to enjoy their grandchild in such a way that it's not potentially to the detriment of the child's wellbeing, and the entire familial relationship if the current relationship continues on its not so merry way.

@UYScuti
Ha ha, thank you!
Don’t worry, karma got him in other ways.