Privilege. How can it be talked about and acknowledged in today's society

[chomalungma]

Just a follow up from the recent threads. Male privilege. White privilege. It exists. But some people think it is a poor concept as they don't seem privileged. This thread is just to carry on the conversation.

The problem with people who have privilege is that they don’t know they have it. Or they do but only in a theoretical sense.

Being in someone else's shoes is difficult for most people. I think that people who get upset by the concept would be surprised to see the world as other people experience it.

I note you don't mention class or wealth privilege.

They're the most significant forms.

In political analysis, class analysis or historic research, privilege as a concept has been used for quite some time. It can be talked about as a theoretical concept.It's an observation not a criticism. The transference of the term from those spheres to the public sphere has coincided with identity politics and it's become a loaded term used as a criticism and applied to individuals.
I'm not sure how you overcome it because the people using it in that way don't want to overcome those limitations. They've created them.

There were a lot of privileges i could have mentioned. Wealth and class certainty are privileges.

I think people who claim to not know about their privilege are in fact very aware of it, and simply don't want to acknowledge it as they don't want the status quo to change.

If you are white and you live in poverty on a run down council estate in the north then the concept that you have privilege is laughable.

It's academic concepts applied to real life. The true meaning of privilege has become muddled with identity politics.

As is education. But the problem is that type of discourse feeds into a sliding scale of oppression. If I'm white but poor, if I'm black but wealthy, if I'm Irish but well-educated - who has most privilege? who has least?
People need to see how 'privilege' as a concept helps discourse or campaigns or change. If it doesn't, then people won't enter into discussions about it because they'll see it as a reductive term that doesn't acknowledge the reality of society but instead attempts to brush over the complexities that need addressed.

On that council estate there will be groups who have privilege in certain areas compared to other groups. Being old, disabled, female on that estate is probably more difficult for them than for other groups.

I’m not sure the talk about types of privilege is good politics - assuming you are left leaning, labelling groups as privileged is othering and isn’t going to encourage people to vote for you.

I can see as a sociological concept there is truth to it but it’s the opposite of the inclusive appeal you need to get elected.

It’s the promotion of noxious left-wing ideological concepts in defiance of common sense and human intuition.

It’s why 41-38 didn’t happen

If you are white and you live in poverty on a run down council estate in the north then the concept that you have privilege is laughable.

Exactly. Which is why any discussion that doesn't start with the most significant forms of privilege, wealth and class, is doomed to annoy.

I guess a more interesting question might be : since privilege as a concept has become enmeshed with identity politics and rendered meaningless in public debate, why are some people still using it and pushing it?
Because more and more often, when people use it, they're attempting a 'gotcha' or to silence an opinion they find unpalatable. But it's not succeeding at shutting down opinions and it's not helping people to understand class analysis. . .so why are certain sectors championing it when it's a failed conceit in public discourse?

But if you're white and in poverty on a council estate, doesn't that mean that one factor that isn't working against you is your colour? Would it be worse if you were a young black man, more likely to be profiled as being criminal, living on that same council estate?

Do you think telling someone that being male means that their opinion that there is little sexism is trying to silence them?

If you come from a privileged family, but have ASD then invisible barriers pop up all over the place, depriving you of opportunities that you might be qualified for because you can't do small talk and you don't understand the vibe. You are always an outsider despite looking like an insider, making you doubly alienated.

Almost everyone can look at some part of their life and feel blessed / privileged to have had that experience. I think we need to get rid of identity politics, which is about what people are born into, and focus instead on the values that build a friendly society.

Yes I’m more interested in dialogues that build on what we have in common, what we can build together than what we identify as or are identified as.

Speaking as someone who is white, I don't think I have any right to say there is little racism in this country. Because it is not something I experience

Which threads are you talking about?

I’ve just been on one that’s been zapped, about white victims of Asian rape gangs. Can’t say I was impressed by the , oh no, the police wouldn’t ignore the abuse just because of the rapists race. Despite the evidence to the contrary.

You need to be more specific.

KatyCarrCan very good post. I was trying to make this point on the other thread.

It's great to look at what we have in common. How does that reduce discrimination and remove barriers?

I’d have thought focusing on community goals rather than how we are different would make people feel less outsiders in general and unite rather than divide people up by characteristics.

Did the original post get deleted then?

I think the “white privilege” thing annoys people so much as it is almost used as a #nodebate phrase to silence or put down arguments which may be reasoned (or not, as the case may be) because the proposer is white.

Another reason it annoys people is because a white person who is poor or from a non-British background may not feel particularly privileged.

An Irish or Eastern European name or accent is enough to attract discrimination (I have experienced this myself as I’m white Irish).

Therefore if “white privilege” means “privileged to have not experienced racism” or “financially/ socially privileged” then there is a large section of the white population of Britain to whom it doesn’t apply.

Perhaps “white middle-class British privilege” would be a more accurate moniker.

For reference, in Liverpool it used to be the case that “No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish” was a common sign put up in hotels, boarding houses and pubs, and a slang term for a black man was a “Smoked Irishman”.

Now can you see why the very phrase “White Privilege” is problematic?

This is a bit off topic but....Irish BUT well educated? As if it's unusual for an Irish person to be well educated?
What?

I think it's a comparison thing that we do need to talk about but usually the people who complain about the concept of white male privilege not being a real thing have it in bucket loads.

In areas of the country bring poor is a very real thing. If you look at areas of deprivation and compare it with parental qualifications and aspiration some high ethnic minority areas come out well.

The question might well be, why do certain demographics aspire to more for their children? And why do some just complain that some people might have more than them?

@chomalungma Did you grow up on an inner city council estate as a BAME individual?