AIBU to be really fucked with inability to sleep at night

[Reallycantbefuckedtothink]

Just that really, I have always suffered with insomnia but since after Christmas, it has gone up a whole new level.

I managed to fall asleep at around 11pm woke up at 11.15 wide a fucking awake and haven't been able to sleep since.

Its really fucking me up, time spent with DS and DP and to be able to do anything at all because I get so tired during the day.

Exactly, Bran.

@Branleuse I am one of those people.

I have found meditation and really strict sleep hygiene and the methods espoused by Sasha Stephens are helpful, although her delivery is awful. Also HRT.

It is counterintuitive but I NEVER TAKE A NAP, no matter how tired I am and always get up at 7 am, even at weekends. And it has made a difference to me. I am still not sleeping perfectly, but still better than I have for a few years.

And I have tried CBD oil, acupuncture, melatonin, antihistamines etc...

I was trying to be helpful. I think I'll go away now.

In 16 years on MN I've never seen ODFOD used but I think I can work out what it means.

Still, i do know what it means to be tired & angry.

I dont take a nap either, because I cant nap, because I am someone that cant sleep, therefore I cant nap.

I think If I slept a bit shit and then could take a nap, that would be ok.
My DP has issues getting to sleep, but he does sleep eventually, gets a few hours, and then sometimes will take a nap or two if he needs to. Not really insomnia, just bad sleep pattern

Well I'm sorry to hear that Branluse, I hope you can get the help you need.

@newname73 "Are you all following the basic rules of sleep hygiene? Google if you don't know what these are."

I think most of us who struggle with sleep are aware of "sleep hygiene" and for many of us, it doesn't make a difference...
Whilst it is fantastic that headspace and meditation work for you, unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone...

I struggle immensely with sleep, going to sleep and staying. I'm physically disabled so I can't get plenty of exercise, get loads of fresh air and the advised stuff as I struggle to even get out of my house. Plus the myriad drugs I take everyday, many of them have sleep issues as a possible side effect so all mixed together it's a pile of insomnia. I also enjoy living in the noisiest place on earth. It's like every single thing in my life is conspiring to deny me sleep.

I did once ask for help, my GP after much umming and erring gave me 3 sleeping pills with the attitude this was a negative thing to do, a bad choice, made me feel utterly crap. I took one and it was horrendous, it made my body so sleepy and heavy I couldn't even turn over in bed but my mind was racing, I didn't sleep for a second but felt very ill. This has really put me off ever seeing a Dr again, both the attitude and result of the pill.

I have however started taking magnesium, just in the hope this will help in any way! I keep seeing it listed in sleep advice.

It's been mentioned earlier in the thread, but has everyone tried Amitriptyline?

6 months or so ago, I had tried EVERYTHING and all helped a tiny bit, for a little whilst, but nothing gave me a good night sleep. Amitriptyline is the only thing that makes a definite difference.

What it does for me is not so much helps me fall asleep, but it helps me stay so, especially around that 4am Mark when I otherwise wake up feeling fully alert. What a feeling to wake up feeling comfortable in my bed and wanting to be there rather than feeling like an electric battery, despite feeling totally shattered.

Like many here, I had to laugh at the notion of taking a nap! I've never really been able to fall asleep during the day, but the idea that I could lay on a bed and fall asleep in the afternoon is laughable. No matter how utterly exhausted I am, I will never be able to go into sleep.

My insomnia is triggered by the menopause, like a large number of women and it has nothing to do with sleep hygiene. It's to do with the lack of oestrogen that triggers a rise in adrenalin (or whatever it is) and this rise is more in effect early in the morning.

It is true though that accepting insomnia can help. It makes everything in life harder, more stressful and tedious, but ultimately, I'm still getting up every day, going to work 5 days a week, getting on with chores and doing activities. It would just be so nice doing all this without feeling like I'm carrying 20 kilos on my shoulders all the time.

To those who have tried everything but Amitryptline, I would really suggest going to your GP and discussing it. I know quite a number of people on it and all have no trouble getting a prescription. I'm sure it's not for everyone, and in my case, it only works if I take it no more than 2 or 3 times a week, but I'm so happy to have it, to have it on repeat so I know I won't have to beg my GP for it, and I can always look forward to at least a couple of night of not perfect sleep, but better sleep.

If any of you are late forties/early fifties m it could well be a dip in oestrogen. I’m older than that (56) but was suffering insomnia from about 50. I’ve been on HRT for five months and it has massively helped me sleep. The oestrogen gel helps but the real star is the utragestan (progesterone)tablet at night—really helps me drop off. They will have to kill me to take them away from me.

@GoldilocksAndTheThreePears "I'm physically disabled so I can't get plenty of exercise, get loads of fresh air and the advised stuff as I struggle to even get out of my house. Plus the myriad drugs I take everyday, many of them have sleep issues as a possible side effect so all mixed together it's a pile of insomnia."

Exactly this! People underestimate the effects of being physically disabled and on numerous drugs for their condition(s). The old saying "people don't get it until they get it" is so true!

Retroflex “ it's just not good enough really, because you are still judging other people by your own perception of what is a "legitimate" reason to need medication!”

This. I kept my trap shit because I’d probably get banned if I’d responded to that poster earlier, such rage inducing shite.

I did go to yoga. No it won’t help with sleep but will hopefully help counteract some of the health problems that come from lack of sleep!

I have suffered with insomnia on and off my entire life and it's got worse since I hit 40..possibly peri menopause! Things I have found that helped..sorry if they seem obvious and haven't read the full thread..leaving my phone downstairs, keeping as cool as possible, if I wake up having a snack..sometimes it's hunger..also, I learned this from a CBT course I did for worry. Keep a notebook by the side of the bed, if you are worried about anything quickly write it in the notebook. You designate yourself a worry time each day..so say 8pm the next day you go upstairs and look at all the worries you wrote in your notebook. That's your worry time you are not allowed to worry about them any other time. I find this really helps in the night if I have something on my mind. I quickly jot it down then it's out of my mind. Hth

Sorry Really can't yes, if you Google Bimuno sachets lots of sellers come up... I buy 4 boxes in one go on eBay cheapest. It all sounded like mumbo jumbo but I've given it a long time with and without and it works for me. Even if it's placebo,I sleep more.
And sorry everyone I p**sed off by saying 'you will survive'... I tried some stuff after several years of life-destroying insomnia and was trying to help. Appreciate it sounded smug/trite/ whatever. Will zip it now.

Btw, i find 5htp helpful personally too for sleep. Not on its own so much, but to top up other methods

I’m sort of lucky, I can get zolpidem, due to the fact that I am fairly frequently on high dose steroids and I have cPTSD. However; as Bran said, third night, nothing. Does anyone know if I can take the promethazine instead on those nights?

I think mine is anxiety related. I have an inability to wind down, so end up not sleeping until the small hours, then feeling virtually comatose when the alarm clock goes off.

I’ve recently had awful trouble sleeping. I’m not sure you would describe me as having insomnia though. I lay awake until 2am last night, slept for an hour, lay awake again until 4:30. Slept an hour. Got up. The night previous was the same, and odd nights like that since Christmas.
I’ve not even been tired today.
I don’t know what’s changed. It sounds melodramatic, but it was torture last night.
Laying there. Awake and alert as anything, willing myself to drift off. Brain unable to stop. I don’t know how people that suffer with insomnia cope.
Even with two hours sleep I’m only just starting to feel a little sleepy now.

Caffeine is horrendous to quit if you’re having a lot. I was drinking a lot of strong coffee in one job (office based, real coffee made strong and the culture in the office was constant top ups so you didn’t even know how much you were having really)

After my 2nd mc I did a lot of research into potential causes and caffeine is one that came up a lot. So I decided to quit not thinking it would affect me that much - I felt bloody awful! So ill that I didn’t link it to the caffeine and thought flu or even glandular fever which I’d had before. Luckily the dr I saw twigged and recommended a more gradual withdrawal. I was a bit sceptical at first, but the next day I had some caffeine (not loads) and pretty much instantly felt well again - I was honestly both amazed and horrified!

Gradually withdrew and went caffeine free completely before ttc and while pregnant and bf too.

I do like Diet Coke and coffee so gradually went back on again but knowing the effects and I am so desperate to try anything pretty much at the moment to help my mh (and so drs and mh people have no more bloody excuses!) that I quit again nov 2018.

It’s helped very slightly with the general anxiety and I have fewer palpitations but otherwise no difference.

“Are you all following the basic rules of sleep hygiene? Google if you don't know what these are.” Seriously?! Do you really think we’d be desperately trying less common remedies if we hadn’t already tried ‘sleep hygiene’ to death?! This response really pisses me off yet hcps and mh professionals bang on about it as if it’s bloody news to us insomniacs!!

“I have even considered staying up all of one night and making myself stay awake all of the following day, in the hopes of resetting my body clock” I’ve tried that several times - hasn’t worked yet sorry.

I’ve tried vit d, magnesium, b vits, antihistamines have no effect (I have allergies anyway)

“Eating and drinking late in the evening never good for your body” geez again! Tell us something we DON’T know!!

I eat once a day at the only point my anxiety isn’t at a peak tying my stomach in knots. If I don’t eat I really will risk not surviving I’m barely existing as it is and getting NO support from the nhs in any real way. But carry on telling us stuff WE ALREADY KNOW.

“I think when I'm done working and caring for mum, I'll just become a raging alcoholic. Though that's got to be hard on the stomach as well, lol.” I appreciate said in jest but it’s actually a common “cause” of alcoholism. I’ve a few in my family several of whom it started as a way to help them sleep.

If the nhs had treated their insomnia (which they DID report numerous times) theres a chance they wouldn’t have become alcoholics.

“I think some of you just need to accept that you need drugs to sleep.” The problem isn’t US accepting that it’s our drs! Because they won’t prescribe the meds.

And I for one won’t use illegal drugs, it’s far too risky. I’ve lost loved ones to drug addiction.

“I cant imagine someone with severe depression going to the doctor and them saying "ok, we will give you two weeks worth of antidepressants, and then you really need to learn how to be happy on your own"” actually that really is happening!

I’ve had no support from mh services since last April. I was dismissed from the service given NO reason NO Apology.

I have as I said before ocd (pretty severe, everything I do has a ritual even breathing, moving in bed, opening my eyes), agoraphobia (not left my flat block in over 2 years), depression and general anxiety.

I’m on mirtazipine 45mg, tramadol 50mg and Noriday taken constantly for endo (had to fight for that!) for chronic pain, though I don’t take that every day as hate side effects.

Gp has written to and spoken to mh team on several occasions on my behalf.

Locally there’s been a LOT of complaints about this team since a new manager took over. My mum thinks they were brought in to cut costs and don’t give a fuck about patient care. I’ve been trying to speak to them since April. The team leader of the team I WAS under has spoken to me ONCE after I threatened a formal complaint which I am in the process of sorting (not easy and very time consuming and I struggle with the energy to deal with it) but did not apologise nor explain.

I’ve since discovered (mainly from people letting things slip) that there are multiple mistaken entries on my “file” about things I’ve supposedly said/done/not done that are plain WRONG!

It’s incredibly hard when it takes all your energy just to EXIST to also fight a system that wants you to quietly disappear and not fucking bother them!

@NewName73 ODFOD - strongly seconded! Deeply offensive, trite, dismissive posts!

“The old saying "people don't get it until they get it" is so true!” Absolutely!

I'm here again tonight. Honestly, ye are lovely but I definitely do not want to be in the insomnia gang I had many years of no sleep with my son and barely remember any of it now as I was barely existing I was so tired. My best wishes to you all and I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

My son is now on melatonin and he probably will be for life. He is on a liquid called Kidnaps. It 'goes off' after 6 weeks so there is always a load left in the bottle when we throw it out. He just takes a tiny amount a half an hour before bed time.
Apparently you can get a slow release melatonin also, but I haven't seen it and am not sure if it's tablets or liquid.

I had read years ago that slowing your breathing really helps also , it said when we are awake we can breath up to 20 times in one minute, whereas when we are asleep, it can be as little as 3 times a minute. That's 10 seconds in and 10 seconds out. Its actually hard to do it that slow!
Anyway, the article said , if you slow your breathing down to that rate, your body will try to fall asleep.

This works for me but would never work for my son, he gets more wound up the more tired he gets and has never gotten 'sleepy' in his life.

There must be many different types of insomnia so, as many as there are people. I hope you all find your own way of getting through it anyway, I'm off to slow my breathing down now and shall hope for the best, goodnight !

Aye checking in, had a shit day and very ashamed of myself but that is for a different thread

Just to say like some other people here, I am on certain drugs for mental health disorders and some of the suggestions don't work with the drugs I am on, but I have written everything down on the ones I dont know and will check on them, but after nearly 6 years of debilitating mental health and finally finding a combination of durgs that seems to work, doesn't knock me out for hours at a time and my brain is tolerating, I am not willing to risk it at the minute.

@Graphista, I have given up smoking, drinking and coffee and by far the most difficult is diet coke, fuck knows what they put it in, I am cutting down at the moment but even that seems impossible,

@3luckystars I agree, seem a lovely bunch, might get on if we meet somewhere in RL, but don't want to be in a group on insomnias

I'm new here but I've had insomnia for years on and off. Currently in a bad stage of it. Another night with no sleep and a busy day ending with a 5 year olds party to go to 😭

@Bloodyhellf good luck with that, I have the opposite this weekend and get to dump my DS on some poor parent for 3 hours

Wow, a lot of vitriol on here.

I am so sorry for upsetting many of you with what I said. And I have already apologised once.

I know as well as any of you how horrible it is not sleeping for extended periods of time. And have to go to work and function on 2 -3 hours sleep a night. I was just trying to share an alternative approach to drugs which seems to be working for me.

Was not trying to minimise anyone's problems.

And those of you who have cited oestrogen as factor - absolutely. I assume you are all on HRT? It has made a big difference to my life, not so much in my sleeping, but in my ability to cope with it.

The menopause and HRT is not widely understood, even among many GPs, and for anyone in their 40s or 50s struggling with sleep I'd suggest you look at this as a factor. (And apologies if I'm saying something you already know, I don't know any of you personally).

Gosh for the first time on MN a thread has actually made me cry. I don't know why I should let this get to me.

Maybe a 3rd night in a row of not sleeping is getting me.

(one thing I don't do is call it insomnia, because the therapy I am choosing to follow explains how that is counterproductive. It also says avoid online forums like this. I think i understand why).