To insist the kids are not equal?

[Elsielouise13]

Inspired by thread about sitting in the front of the car...

One thing I am fussy about when it comes to choosing seats is in a restaurant. I can’t stand it when children rush to seats ahead of adults in a restaurant and ‘bag the best options’. When we go for meals with friends I’ll always insist to my children they wait til the adults have chosen their seats before they sit down.

Several times I’ve been out with other parents who let the kids decide the seating and then struggle in and out for the duration of dinner.

I’ll be fecked if I’m paying for a meal and miss out on watching the room and get to only see my husband and the wall behind him.

And in our house the adults are the ones doing the adulting and that’s why my children spent most of the afternoon messing about about and I ironed school shirts.

@Hoppingpavlova window vs aisle vs middle seat?

Really? Do people honestly care about this when flying with their kids? I certainly care about it when flying next to strangers and want the aisle so I don’t have to bother climbing over people I don’t know with my arse in their face. However, my own family? Meh, couldn’t care less if I was window, centre or aisle. I have no qualms about sticking my bum in my kids faces on the way out/in or telling them to get up to let me out or falling over them. No qualms about them doing the same to me. Are people really this weird with their own families where they have the same rules/level of comfort as with strangers? I feel really sorry for a lot of people if this is a thing.

I’ve genuinely never thought of this as a problem - I don’t think I’ve ever told my son he needs to wait for adults to be seated, and yet if we are out with his grandparents he does hang back and let them choose first because he uses common sense and empathy to judge when people need more consideration. As someone with no mobility issues myself I wouldn’t expect my preferences to trump his.

I'm currently focussing on teaching my toddler not to care so much about inconsequential things like which seat he gets in a restaurant or plane. I hope he'll be over that long before he's an adult!

Surely part of the fun of going on planes as a kid is the window seat?! I can't imagine denying my DD the chance to sit there so I can instead when it would be much more exciting for her

I certainly care about it when flying next to strangers and want the aisle so I don’t have to bother climbing over people I don’t know with my arse in their face. However, my own family? Meh, couldn’t care less if I was window, centre or aisle

It's nothing to do with having someone's arse in your face and everything to do with the fun of looking out of the window and having your kids "corralled" in their seats.

I just can’t get my head around an adult thinking there are ‘best seats’.

@Elsielouise13 And I send my son to a school where the pre- prep children shake the hand of their teacher at the end of the day

Do he often get worms? Shaking a hand of someone when what ... 20 other kids have shook that hand? Yeah, no thanks. Won't be happening.

Aside from which, it would be a sensory nightmare for my child.

You really don't understand that choice does not = bad behaviour.

My dd is due to go back to school after the summer holidays soon. She will choose her seat and sit in it all year, even though all the other kids would move. Why? Anxiety. It isn't because she is spoiled, or badly behaved, it is because of she is moved she it will cause her anxiety to spike and she will not learn. Sometimes you have to concede that a kid knows what they need.

@thejollyroger So equally, there might be some occasions where I say, “No, DC, I want to sit next to Dad today.”

Really? This is quite petty. I spent years sitting next to dh, and it being only me & him. I don't think I am going to fall apart if our daughter wants to sit next to him for one meal

I don't think I am going to fall apart if our daughter wants to sit next to him for one meal

The point of that comment was surely that sometimes she wants to sit next to him and at other times the child does.

Really? This is quite petty. I spent years sitting next to dh, and it being only me & him. I don't think I am going to fall apart if our daughter wants to sit next to him for one meal

Me neither. That’s why I said on some occasions.

Best seats? To my children, the best seat is any that is ‘next to mummy’.
This reminds me of my ex-husband who, a couple of years into the marriage, told me it really bothered him (actually made him angry) if I sat in the chair facing the room when we were out, because that’s apparently the ‘best seat’ and he wanted it - always. Baffling behaviour from an adult but I went along with it (until all his other unreasonable behaviour became too much).
I think making the children wait until the adults are seated is over the top and joy-sucking for them, but sure, if they sit down on the edge, and it made more sense for someone else to (because of needing the space for example), I would just ask them politely to move over.

You clearly started playing up to the horrible role in later posts but in your earlier ones you use the phrases " I am fussy about...." and "just saying" after a ridiculous statement, and " I have a lot of friends what can I say?" All of which tells me exactly what I need to know about you.

Ultimately if you think that where you sit in a restaurant denotes some kind if parenting tactic you are not bright enough to understand the minutiae and importance of teaching your children about society.

It is of course your choice about how you parent your children but dint be so faux wide eyed surprised that other people dont agree when you post on a public forum.

The one thing I have and will teach my DC is that respect is earnt. When they come across someone who expects ot because of age or gender or parenting choices that the children were given and did not request that doesn't equal earnt respect.

I iron my DC clothes , because I agree with you DC should be DC and God knows for my two at 7 and 4 there is little enough time to be children. However that's my choice as a parent, as was having them.. they do not owe me anything for it.

I expect them to show me respect because I show them it , and before you get all bosom hoiky at your internally inferred superiority because you have standards and you assume I'm a flighty hippie, I'm an extremely tough mum , they know this. I dont tolerate rudeness or inappropriate behaviour.

However nor do I expect them to bow down and be subservient to people because those people have such a level of insecurity they feel the need to demand arbitrary acts of kowtowing due to feeling owed something that they chose to do.

Tell you what OP earn some respect by something other than basic parenting and see what happens. If your DC naturally show you respect then that's fair enough and earnt, if you still have to demand for your fussy self that you are treated in a certain way have a think about why you have to impose that rule.

This is an interesting thread and an unusual amount of posters are being really rude to the OP, suggesting she get help? Bizarrely rude.

My parents brought me up in a similar sounding way and frankly, I never learned to look after myself in terms of washing and ironing my clothes, cleaning, that sort of thing, because mum never expected me to do it. So I would do that differently now.

They didn’t make a fuss about seating arrangements but that’s probably because I automatically deferred to them. Never sat in the front seat of the car with an adult in the back etc. They were very hierarchical. I am questioning it in light of this thread but not sure what I am concluding.

That article was interesting thank you Kate. I’ve seen posts on MN before where posters say that they wouldn’t make their child give up seats on public transport for adults and was reminded of those when I saw a post above saying they prioritise their child because they are powerless. Well sure kids are relatively powerless so we protect them, but that doesn’t mean we prioritise them 24/7 does it? I’ve seen these kids become really demanding and domineering and wouldn’t want that. I guess it’s about give and take, balance and moderation.

I’m not suggesting that every little thing has to be controlled by adults in a hierarchical way and of course children should be allowed freedom of expression and to have fun, but I’m not sure that i see a problem with adults not allowing children to take the best of things for themselves with no regard for other people.

I understand in a way but mine are still young. We tend to sit them so that they are blocked in (no idea why as they're well behaved and wouldn't leave the table but it feel safer) and then if we're in somewhere like Nando's DH can easily get out to order etc. When they're more grown up I don't suppose I'll care. I do however and will always sit at the front of the car.

I think that when dining out with a group of adults and children, if it's to be an enjoyable occasion then one of the first considerations is harmony but the second is control.
To ensure the first you need a modicum of the second, so while it's nice to see families eating out together it's not so great if the children are running around and tripping up waiters, or disturbing other diners unduly.
So the adults need to direct the situation to a greater or lesser extent, if the kids pile into seats where they can create difficulties it's fine to move them. Or if they choose a seat without thinking about other people's needs. Including anyone's need or even preference to sit facing the room.
But it can be done with a light touch. So if I was out with DH and DC, plus a friend, I'd ask the friend where they wanted to sit first and position us next.

I get you op.

And I send my son to a school where the pre- prep children shake the hand of their teacher at the end of the day. They are not allowed to rush into lunch there either

Loving this as an example as to why you’re correct. DD did 9 years at a prep. They weren’t allowed to rush into lunch, they were allowed to pick their seats each day

Agree with @JacquesHammer DC's prep can't get worked up about where they sit at lunch either. They are absolutely expected to be polite, converse with each other and show exemplary table manners. But best seats?

Well this doesn’t bother me exactly but I won’t sit in a seat where I can’t easily get out due to claustrophobia. And I think best for parents of young kids to be on the “outside” of them to stop them getting up and down.

However when I go out with my Mum to eat Inalways given her the “best” seat with a view of the room because my Dad always insists on having it when they are together (he is quite odd like that though). And I get plenty of opportunities to have they seat with my kids and my friends, albeit not in a planned way, just as and when.

YANBU OP. As far as I'm concerned there are situations where children should do as they're told, and this is one, they should sit where they're told to sit.
I'm sure I'll get roasted alive on here for daring to suggest children shouldn't come first at all times and in all contexts, but IMHO kids being allowed to make every single decision themselves is a great way to end up with overly entitled kids.

*And I send my son to a school where the pre- prep children shake the hand of their teacher at the end of the day. They are not allowed to rush into lunch there either

Loving this as an example as to why you’re correct. DD did 9 years at a prep. They weren’t allowed to rush into lunch, they were allowed to pick their seats each day

Agree with @JacquesHammer DC's prep can't get worked up about where they sit at lunch either. They are absolutely expected to be polite, converse with each other and show exemplary table manners. But best seats? *

My prep school and DCs prep school, there are no best seats (all just as uncomfortable). But yes, absolutely no rushing for the tables.

Hmmm it seems like you're getting worked up unnecessarily about a tiny thing. I don't really care where I seat in a restaurant as the seats are all pretty much the same. And as the adult I can manage my disappointment about not getting an amazing seat so I think YABU!

This popped up on FB this morning.... todaysmama.com/parenting/physician-american-children-immersed-in-a-culture-of-disrespect?fbclid=IwAR2-cV_n-_3E_c0lxXC097WGr11JV88_xxW3vhuHOgbZBifZ2K6AQSkV_iA

avocadotofu it is not about managing ones disappointment. It is about appropriateness and respect. My dc - now in their 20s have been brought up to understand that as their mother, they don't grab before me. They are brought up to understand the grace of giving respect and thinking about others. As a parent, life is about thinking of others (your family) so in situations like restaurant seating, they have been brought up to understand that rushing in like a mob and snatching 'the best' seats or grabbing the first choice of something is just flat out rude and inappropriate. But hey, each to their own I guess.

I hate this. People that become parents and have some power over another human being, no matter how tiny, and abuse it. All people are equal, no matter how long we’ve been on this earth.

You’re on a fucking power trip. Let your kids sit where they want.

They are brought up to understand the grace of giving respect and thinking about others

Mine is being brought up to understand that respect should be earned and not given

JacquesHammer we have earned their respect - by providing for them, loving them, encouraging them, tending to their needs, building and creating our loving family. If this does not 'earn' their respect, I fear, nothing will. What on earth are your dc expecting from you before they deem you worthy of respect?